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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I still think Tony would've deserved a happy ending far more than Steve. He had a family, he was finally ready to let go, even before the final battle.
Steve on the other hand had an explicit nightmare in AoU about retiring. He was a soldier to the bone, he always needed something to punch, pulling a heroic sacrifice would've been the perfect ending for him, instead of selfishly going to the past and basically changing history (yes, you can say "Alternate Universe" all you want, but it doesn't change the premise).
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianSteve hid that Bucky killed Howard Stark.
Tony may have fractured the Avengers, but that's what shattered them. That being said:
That’s the fun thing about Tony. His quest to make up for Tony always has him making exciting new errors
Tony's mistakes are like his armours: constantly upgrading to a greater level.
Ironically, both Tony and Steve effectively have the same major flaw. They want to protect everyone body, but specifically believe people should be protected in the way they deem adequate - and for both of them, at times what other people want isn't really important to them.
It's especially noticeable for Tony, because pretty much every problem he has between Iron Man 2 and Endgame is caused by him believing he has the right to make decisions about what other people need without consulting or caring about what they have to say, nor needing checks and balances on himself. He has a compulsive need to wrest responsibility away from everybody else.
But it's also there for Steve. It drives his half of Civil War: the idea that his hands are the only hands he trusts, and so they're the only hands that should be doing important things even if other people have a stake in them. That's the big thing driving the conflict in that movie: Tony and Steve are effectively taking the same stance, but since their allegiances don't align they can't both be the one in charge, so it devolves.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 20th 2020 at 10:33:05 AM
I don't think the MCU makes any claim that Steve's attitude — "I do what I do because it is morally right and I am a paragon of truth and virtue" — is perfect or doesn't result in problems. His major arc is growing out of that: taking the giant stick out of his ass and learning that things aren't black and white.
Steve and Tony are intentionally set up as each other's foils.
Edit: Also, this.
Edited by Fighteer on Jul 20th 2020 at 1:34:48 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I will said infinity war kinda set the flaws about steve in a way that mirror civil war.
I mean we see how he decide everyone have to die fighting and no one is left behind(the same thing he said back to tony in avengers) and he did.....and fail and thanos got the stone because of it.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Also, Steve and Tony's falling-out in Civil War is what splits up the Avengers and sets them back on their heels when Thanos attacks. It all comes together in a neat little package.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Tony got to draw a bit of blood and praise from Thanos
Steve got slight confusion that a tiny man was managing to barely hold his hand. And then punched the minute Thanos bothered to try
Forever liveblogging the AvengersHeh. Lets end this before we get into another Anti-Steve rant.
Cause we've had those. I think if you have that many issues with Steve (some valid, some creative interpretations based on not really liking him in the first place, or thinking he's just the embodiment of America's worst aspects), then you're just looking for those things in the first place.
One Strip! One Strip!![]()
Yeah, but that's if you bother to look. If all you see is stupid idiot in loud costume, and have a low opinion of the U.S. from the get go, then Steve is fighting an uphill battle.
One Strip! One Strip!![]()
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I think steven and tony reflect the two worst flaw: messing in stuff they dont have to and resisting authority for the sake of it.
Tony is your typical "we should nuke iran" while steve is more "mask? I wont use a stinking mask!"
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Nah, scott is not bad, is and huge idiot who dosent think but he is a good men.
Also the only good dad in the marvel universe.
Edited by unknowing on Jul 20th 2020 at 2:09:49 PM
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"![]()
....you really think Steve wouldn't wear a mask?
Then you are really misunderstanding him.
Edited by HandsomeRob on Jul 20th 2020 at 12:11:52 PM
One Strip! One Strip!
I mean he defile the entire ONU on the sokovia accord, he is not a idiot but he does have a tendecy to stick on authority, so he come close to "dont tread on me!" kind of american.
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The real question would be: who will replace tony star in civl war 2?
Edited by unknowing on Jul 20th 2020 at 2:15:23 PM
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Far From Home seems like it’s setting up to have Spider Man succeed Iron Man and Cap passed his shield to Sam
But there’s one more Spider movie before marvel has to negotiate with Sony again and Captain Falcon is going to be in streaming and not movies
So those two are unlikely to take up the conflicting roles that Tony and Steve did
T’Challa is materially set up to replace Tony as the guy who wants to better the world and has the resources for it
But he’s not really set up opposite anyone
Maybe a new character will step up
Edited by Bocaj on Jul 20th 2020 at 2:16:28 PM
Forever liveblogging the Avengers

AOU look he took that HARD into a mess he become.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"