TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#119226: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:08:44 AM

[up]He kinda does, in Iron man 2 he learn to forgive his father or make peace with him, in Iron man 3 it look he is finally moving way from using his armour and other as crutch.

AOU look he took that HARD into a mess he become.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#119227: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:09:52 AM

I still think Tony would've deserved a happy ending far more than Steve. He had a family, he was finally ready to let go, even before the final battle.

Steve on the other hand had an explicit nightmare in AoU about retiring. He was a soldier to the bone, he always needed something to punch, pulling a heroic sacrifice would've been the perfect ending for him, instead of selfishly going to the past and basically changing history (yes, you can say "Alternate Universe" all you want, but it doesn't change the premise).

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#119228: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:09:56 AM

The idea that being with Peggy was the only selfish choice Steve ever made is laughably inaccurate if anyone actually pays attention to the films. Even his wanting to enlist in The First Avenger has an air glory seeking attached to it.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#119229: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:26:48 AM

Kinda, tony is selfish in that it make everything about him, Steve is selfish in that "I have to do what I have to do, sorry about consequence" the first is control freak while the second feel like condecencing ruler flipper.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#119230: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:31:19 AM

Steve hid that Bucky killed Howard Stark.

Tony may have fractured the Avengers, but that's what shattered them. That being said:

Different mistakes anyway

That’s the fun thing about Tony. His quest to make up for Tony always has him making exciting new errors

Tony's mistakes are like his armours: constantly upgrading to a greater level.tongue

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#119231: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:32:46 AM

Ironically, both Tony and Steve effectively have the same major flaw. They want to protect everyone body, but specifically believe people should be protected in the way they deem adequate - and for both of them, at times what other people want isn't really important to them.

It's especially noticeable for Tony, because pretty much every problem he has between Iron Man 2 and Endgame is caused by him believing he has the right to make decisions about what other people need without consulting or caring about what they have to say, nor needing checks and balances on himself. He has a compulsive need to wrest responsibility away from everybody else.

But it's also there for Steve. It drives his half of Civil War: the idea that his hands are the only hands he trusts, and so they're the only hands that should be doing important things even if other people have a stake in them. That's the big thing driving the conflict in that movie: Tony and Steve are effectively taking the same stance, but since their allegiances don't align they can't both be the one in charge, so it devolves.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 20th 2020 at 10:33:05 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119232: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:34:22 AM

I don't think the MCU makes any claim that Steve's attitude — "I do what I do because it is morally right and I am a paragon of truth and virtue" — is perfect or doesn't result in problems. His major arc is growing out of that: taking the giant stick out of his ass and learning that things aren't black and white.

Steve and Tony are intentionally set up as each other's foils.

Edit: Also, this. [up]

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 20th 2020 at 1:34:48 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#119233: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:38:19 AM

I will said infinity war kinda set the flaws about steve in a way that mirror civil war.

I mean we see how he decide everyone have to die fighting and no one is left behind(the same thing he said back to tony in avengers) and he did.....and fail and thanos got the stone because of it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#119234: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:40:37 AM

Also, Steve and Tony's falling-out in Civil War is what splits up the Avengers and sets them back on their heels when Thanos attacks. It all comes together in a neat little package.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#119235: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:45:42 AM

I will said tony come a little better than steve in that he nearly defeat thanos if it wasnt for starlord tantrum in the end, while steve just get punch for his trouble.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#119236: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:48:49 AM

Tony got to draw a bit of blood and praise from Thanos

Steve got slight confusion that a tiny man was managing to barely hold his hand. And then punched the minute Thanos bothered to try

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#119237: Jul 20th 2020 at 10:50:23 AM

Tony was the one who killed him, Steve got his ass kicked and shield cleaved in half, even after wielding Mjolnir.

  • Ahem* But enough of this fictional penis comparison.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#119238: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:02:35 AM

Heh. Lets end this before we get into another Anti-Steve rant.

Cause we've had those. I think if you have that many issues with Steve (some valid, some creative interpretations based on not really liking him in the first place, or thinking he's just the embodiment of America's worst aspects), then you're just looking for those things in the first place.

One Strip! One Strip!
deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#119239: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:04:01 AM

So...basically what I’m gathering from this is Steve and Tony are both awful and the Avengers are better off without them?grin

But no seriously, all jokes aside what is the MCU gonna be without Cap and Iron Man screwing up all the time?

Who’s gonna mess up the world now? Peter? T’Challa? Carol?

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#119240: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:04:11 AM

I think is easier because you kinda need to squint to see steve flaw because they are not telepgraph in your face like tony one in general.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#119241: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:04:16 AM

I wouldn’t say Steve embodies the worst aspects of Americans.

For one he actually is intelligent & not prone to rambling about nonsense.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#119242: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:04:23 AM

I think the majority of us can agree on fuck yeah Scott Lang

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#119243: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:07:30 AM

[up][up]

Yeah, but that's if you bother to look. If all you see is stupid idiot in loud costume, and have a low opinion of the U.S. from the get go, then Steve is fighting an uphill battle.

One Strip! One Strip!
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#119244: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:07:50 AM

Scott generally just ruins his personal life compared to the others.

Wake me up at your own risk.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#119245: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:08:33 AM

[up][up][up]I think steven and tony reflect the two worst flaw: messing in stuff they dont have to and resisting authority for the sake of it.

Tony is your typical "we should nuke iran" while steve is more "mask? I wont use a stinking mask!"

[up][up]Nah, scott is not bad, is and huge idiot who dosent think but he is a good men.

Also the only good dad in the marvel universe.

Edited by unknowing on Jul 20th 2020 at 2:09:49 PM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#119246: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:09:54 AM

I'm not saying that Steve and Tony were awful, but it was definitely time for somebody else to take over and do things in a different way.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#119247: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:10:38 AM

[up][up]

....you really think Steve wouldn't wear a mask?

Then you are really misunderstanding him.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jul 20th 2020 at 12:11:52 PM

One Strip! One Strip!
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#119248: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:13:48 AM

[up]I mean he defile the entire ONU on the sokovia accord, he is not a idiot but he does have a tendecy to stick on authority, so he come close to "dont tread on me!" kind of american.

[up][up]The real question would be: who will replace tony star in civl war 2?evil grin

Edited by unknowing on Jul 20th 2020 at 2:15:23 PM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#119249: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:13:58 AM

[up]3x And you know who would have made a great leader? Natasha Romanoff.

Thanks for that, MCU. Still bitter. tongue

Edited by deuteragonist on Jul 20th 2020 at 11:15:32 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#119250: Jul 20th 2020 at 11:14:37 AM

Far From Home seems like it’s setting up to have Spider Man succeed Iron Man and Cap passed his shield to Sam

But there’s one more Spider movie before marvel has to negotiate with Sony again and Captain Falcon is going to be in streaming and not movies

So those two are unlikely to take up the conflicting roles that Tony and Steve did

T’Challa is materially set up to replace Tony as the guy who wants to better the world and has the resources for it

But he’s not really set up opposite anyone

Maybe a new character will step up

Edited by Bocaj on Jul 20th 2020 at 2:16:28 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Total posts: 186,763
Top