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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#119026: Jul 11th 2020 at 4:41:25 PM

I think the Raimi Goblin's mask was pretty decent? They could go for a more comic faithful design though.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#119027: Jul 11th 2020 at 4:49:05 PM

Just to give two cents, I like Mr. Negative's take on the "villain with a split personality", as an alternative to rehashing that element with any of the Osborns and/or Curt Connors.

And I think Li/Negative is an interesting take because of the element that his original, "real" personality was a bad person and his evil personality is a result of him repressing his memories/culpability in his dominant good personality.

And I really would like to see Kingsley adapted. It's rare to have evil characters that are completely sane.

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#119028: Jul 11th 2020 at 5:09:46 PM

If we do get any rehash villains, I'd prefer the ones that weren't done justice in previous movies. Rhino for example. Doc Ock I felt had a pretty excellent portrayal in Spider-Man 2, and the version in Spider-Verse was a fun and unique take.

Edited by FGHIK on Jul 11th 2020 at 7:10:03 AM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#119029: Jul 11th 2020 at 5:19:31 PM

With what Far From Home set up, it's a stage for guys like Kraven and Scorpion, honestly.

Wake me up at your own risk.
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#119030: Jul 11th 2020 at 5:38:45 PM

I'm curious about the kind of JJJ they're going to do. Pure jerk or jerk with bits of gold thrown in? The latter is by far the most popular if I'm not mistaken.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#119031: Jul 11th 2020 at 5:52:05 PM

Kingsley would be a great villain that can span the franchise if they include his super-villain business.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#119032: Jul 11th 2020 at 6:11:17 PM

[up][up]

I initially thought that it wouldn't make sense for MCU!JJJ to turn out to be a good guy, since he's clearly inspired by Alex Jones. However, I think you could do something close to the current status quo under Zdarsky and Spencer and have JJJ as a formerly respected journalist who went in a modern tabloid direction to keep his paper in business but have him end up as a better person and also turn around his business operations.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#119034: Jul 11th 2020 at 10:06:51 PM

The Hippo is where it's at.

Seriously though, I like the idea that the movie has the plot of a bunch of villains going after a bounty on Spider-Man. Kraven or Scorpion (or both, that'd be fun) become the main bad guy, and take center stage on the story, but the idea would allow for lots of minor bad guys to also show up, try to get the bounty and get their asses kicked.

We could totally see guys like Boomerang or Kangaroo or White Rabbit or whoever, show up, ambush Peter who has a nice action sequence while quipping about how weird they are, then take care of X or Y assassins and get back to unraveling the overall plot.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 11th 2020 at 10:21:43 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#119035: Jul 11th 2020 at 10:13:36 PM

It’s like John Wick 2 but without someone getting a pencil stabbed in their head. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#119036: Jul 11th 2020 at 10:14:37 PM

That's cowards talk!

Wake me up at your own risk.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#119037: Jul 12th 2020 at 3:46:44 AM

don't forget The Wall

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#119038: Jul 12th 2020 at 7:14:44 AM

And everyone's favorite Spider-Man villain, The Walrus.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#119039: Jul 12th 2020 at 8:28:53 AM

Speaking of John Wick, they could do something like the third movie.

Basically the third movie will be Peter having to fight a lot of supervillains, with a lot of C-lists, Kraven and Scorpion among them.

Many might say that having too many villains in a movie would be a mistake. But it is noteworthy that the only ones with real importance would be Kraven and Scorpion, the others would be basically Elite Mooks to have fight scenes.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jul 12th 2020 at 8:29:00 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#119040: Jul 12th 2020 at 8:43:05 AM

Chameleon was also set up in Far From Home, so I could see those three being the three serious villains with a bunch of jobbers thrown in the mix.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#119041: Jul 12th 2020 at 10:00:28 AM

That would be intersting, I mean aside of suicide squad(who dosent count because is a villian movie) often superhero set with a number of two villians per movie, MAYBE three if you are bold.

having a group of C lister could be intersting

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#119042: Jul 12th 2020 at 10:05:49 AM

Wasn't a common complaint about the previous Spider-Man 3 that it had too many villains?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#119043: Jul 12th 2020 at 10:21:59 AM

Chameleon was also set up in Far From Home, so I could see those three being the three serious villains with a bunch of jobbers thrown in the mix.

There's a guy who's name happens to be Dmitri. I don't know if that's exactly set-up.

Wasn't a common complaint about the previous Spider-Man 3 that it had too many villains?

Yeah, but that doesn't mean the complaint is accurate. Winter Soldier has more villains than Spider-Man 3 does, and did just fine.

The key to having multiple villains is to balance them adequately.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 12th 2020 at 10:24:39 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#119044: Jul 12th 2020 at 10:43:33 AM

The Spider-Man 3 problem is more accurately defined as it having had 3 main villains. Goblin Jr, Sandman and Venom all had to compete for screentime to be the main threat, as all three were kind of positioned as the main thematic threat simultaneously and thus strangled one another out.

Winter Soldier by contrast pretty calmly settled on having a duo of main villains cooperating (Pierce and Winter Soldier) and having three tertiary ones (Zola, Batroc and Crossbones) sprinkled throughout.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#119045: Jul 12th 2020 at 10:51:57 AM

Pretty much, also all the villians are part of one group: HYDRA, with pierce being the leader, crossbone the enforcer and the other minor villians

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#119046: Jul 12th 2020 at 10:58:22 AM

[up][up] Exactly. Winter Soldier has a Big Bad (Pierce), two of The Dragon / Number Two (Sitwell, then Crossbones when Sitwell is defeated), The Heavy (Winter Soldier, when he's not being played for sympathy), a Predecessor Villain / Bigger Bad (Zola), and a Starter Villain (Batroc), all of whom occupy different roles within the plot at different times.

The idea of having Zola be the originator villain who conceived the plan the villains are using and Pierce be a devotee who has the power and is executing that plan is especially good - as it allows both of them to feel like the Big Bad without stepping on each other's roles.

Another good movie that made loads of villains work was The Dark Knight. The Bigger Bad (Maroni), A Dragon Ascendant (Joker), a Tragic Monster (Two-Face) and a Starter Villain (Scarecrow). It's all about keeping everyone's niche straight.

But Spider-Man 3 ran into the problem a lot of superhero movies did back then, that every single villain has to be the biggest, most important and personal threat the hero has ever faced, dominating their life for the duration, and took it to its worst extreme by having everyone try to do that all at the same time. Fans just took a cursory look at it blamed the idea rather than the execution, as fans tend to do, missing what actually went wrong.

The original idea for Spider-Man 3, with Sandman as a regretful minion to another, eviller villain (I think it was Vulture), with Harry's subplot as well probably would have worked better due to not being so muddled with villain roles.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 12th 2020 at 11:03:31 AM

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#119047: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:14:46 AM

I think Spider-Man 3 would have been fine if Sony hadn't forced them to include Venom. Even so, I still think it's a pretty good movie for having to work a new main villain into the plot.

Honestly, Amazing Spider-Man 2 suffered from much the same problem. It's pretty clear the higher ups were more concerned about setting up a universe than what's good for the movie itself.

Edited by FGHIK on Jul 12th 2020 at 1:28:44 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#119048: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:59:57 AM

There's a guy who's name happens to be Dmitri. I don't know if that's exactly set-up

A spy named Dmitri, later revealed to be a double-agent working for the villain, who has the ability to create illusions and change his appearance. Dmitri is unaccounted for at the end of the film. That's absolutely set-up for Chameleon.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#119049: Jul 12th 2020 at 12:05:50 PM

A lot depends on how you define "villain". I'd argue that Winter Soldier only has one villain, Hydra, and guys like Pierce and Bucky and Zola are merely a component of that villain. Like, you don't count every henchman who appears on screen as a separate villain.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#119050: Jul 12th 2020 at 12:07:03 PM

For some reason I skipped Winter Soldier,should really watch it some point

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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