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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#118876: Jun 29th 2020 at 9:04:53 PM

The next movie would involve Kraven with Ock augmenting him?

Wake me up at your own risk.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118877: Jun 29th 2020 at 9:46:31 PM

We already have Tinkerer for augments, I think.

I still think a great idea for MCU Spider-Man 3 would be a semi-mash of a bunch of Kraven and anti-Spider-Man stories from the comics, basically involving Jameson or someone else putting out reward for Spidey's capture - resulting in a ton of villains coming out of the woodwork in minor ways to cash in: Scorpion, Spider-Slayers, etc.

But then Kraven turns out to be the most dangerous of the lot, and turns the tables on Jameson (who is more a misguided jerk than evil) by being outright evil and uncontrollable, obsessed with hunting down worthy threats without being particularly picky about ethics.

Also, and this has nothing to do with the above idea, but I got a cool idea of them bringing Liz back and mashing her together with her half-brother to be a more traditional Molten (Wo)Man - complete with not actually being evil when you get right down to it.

As another random thought, but with the convo about MJ, it occurs to me that since she's an OC they sky's kind of the limit for what they can choose to do with her. If they have her suit up somehow or become the MCU version of a heroine or another (as long as it's not Bluebird) there's nothing standing in their way. Hell, make her Jackpot instead of whatever fakeout character it was in the suit in the comics.

Arcade would be a wild one. I like Arcade but I have my doubts here, partially because his shtick cuts a little close to Mysterio's mindgames (but with a lot more emphasis on the "game" part).

The arc I was thinking of involved Arcade and Kraven teaming up, with Arcade building a device to trap dozens of superheroes and villains in Central Park, and creating a virtual interface to allow regular people to hunt them down without consequences (or so they think). That sort of thing would be a neat way to use Arcade.

But then, that also kind of inches close to Mojo (who ain't getting a movie ever, granted). Maybe an upcoming X-Men movie could composite the two together.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 29th 2020 at 10:03:36 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#118878: Jun 29th 2020 at 10:37:19 PM

I like the "a price on spidey's head" idea for the third one with spidey having nowhere to hide (Spider-Man: No Home?), particularly if they're using my boy Kraven the Hunter. Hilariously it could end up shading it towards a John Wick-esque vibe (as the whole "bunch of colorful character crawl out of the woodwork to get the hero 24/7" has most recently been done in franchise form by the John Wick franchise).

On the topic of Mojo: I've always thought he'd be a great choice for the main antagonist for Deadpool 3, if Disney ever grows the guts to do that movie. The pairing of Mojo and Deadpool (the resident fourth wall fiends) is such a natural one that it surprises me comics haven't really invested in it.

Deadpool has a pretty atrocious rogues gallery. The only recurring Deadpool villain I do legitimately like is Black Swan, but I'm beginning to think I'm the only one who even remembers he exists these days.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118879: Jun 29th 2020 at 10:44:53 PM

Deadpool's rogues gallery is underwhelming because the best villain of Deadpool stories is Deadpool.

Edited by M84 on Jun 30th 2020 at 1:45:02 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#118880: Jun 29th 2020 at 11:56:32 PM

The second Spider-Man movie also set up Chameleon.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118881: Jun 30th 2020 at 1:48:18 AM

[up][up] How does Wade even had a rogues gallery anyway? Doesn't the guy kill people?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118882: Jun 30th 2020 at 1:50:21 AM

Some of his enemies are pretty hard to kill, even for someone like Wade.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118883: Jun 30th 2020 at 6:26:46 AM

Also, y'know, death in comic books....

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#118884: Jun 30th 2020 at 6:27:50 AM

Arcade feels like a TV series villain as opposed to a movie one, to be honest. Just because you can pivot to Murderworld for an episode, then leave.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#118885: Jun 30th 2020 at 9:01:25 AM

Fighter:...kinda? sometimes they do make a long and intersting progress of the chararter like cap, others I feel they stuck in one part and repeat over and over, like how Tonyw wasnt allow to move from "I screw up" even when Iron man 2 and 3 try.

Also, what would happen to cap and tony villian gallery now that both are out?, they will integrated to other villians?.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#118886: Jun 30th 2020 at 10:12:44 AM

Everyone in comics with longevity has a rogues gallery of some kind, regardless if they kill villains or not. If they're more supernatural like Deadpool it's easiser to justify (the aforementioned Black Swan came back more than once via some psychic body-switching bullshit). Punisher, actual mass-murderer he is, has a small rogues gallery despite the fact he and his villains are often regular humans.

Maybe executing criminals in cold-blood doesn't solve everything, who'd have thought.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118887: Jun 30th 2020 at 10:14:40 AM

If a villain is popular enough or a good enough fit for the hero, killing them isn't ever going to stop them from coming back. Comic books are perpetual, after all. They have to keep generating stories, more or less forever. So having a few defaults to jump back to is always going to happen - and having a villain who's guaranteed to sell issues stay dead is just asking to lose money.

Even Judge Dredd, famously merciless character who is sold on the idea that law enforcement should be judge, jury and executioner without hesitation, has a sizable rogues gallery.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 30th 2020 at 10:16:19 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118888: Jun 30th 2020 at 10:17:48 AM

Wade does have a couple of antags.

Aside from Swan, there’s T-Ray, Vetus, Butler, & if ya wanna get really wacky the zombie US presidents.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#118889: Jun 30th 2020 at 10:23:01 AM

So, what other iron man villian remain? and how manyof those can be reused? I think they maybe use some cap villians with falcon and bucky series.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#118891: Jun 30th 2020 at 10:35:16 AM

Well, both Iron Man and Cap have successors lined up (in Iron Man's case several, from War Machine to Morgan). The usual route is just reusing those for the legacy characters. The most high profile IM villain not yet used is probably Ezekiel Stane (though Aldritch Killian is basically a dollar store version of him), so he could be one.

Of the Cap's rogues, Baron Von Strucker has technically been used but only in the most vague In Name Only fashion possible and he's a fairly high profile one (though he was more of a 616-Fury arch enemy than a Cap one) so I feel like it's plausible for him to be used again by way of a different character (i.e introducing another member of the Strucker family who's closer to his comics self).

@slimcoder: Yes, but none of those have really made an impact or are particularly interesting. T-Rey in particular is a pretty abysmal character. Black Swan is the only one I find to be a reasonably interesting character and who made a decent dent on DP's mythos (being essentially the cause of the whole Agent X era and whatnot).

Edited by Gaon on Jun 30th 2020 at 10:38:18 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118892: Jun 30th 2020 at 10:46:44 AM

MODOK and Count Nefaria are pretty major Iron Man villains (though he does share them with Cap and the Avengers respectively) who haven't appeared yet. I really want MODOK for Captain Marvel 2, and I think Nefaria really should have been been in a movie by now, so I'm down with either of those.

But Iron Man's interesting, as the majority of his rogues gallery was kind of made to be jobbers, though. He's one of the comics books' best resources for throwaway robbers and mercs with supertech - if you want to fill space on a team, have a minor villain to fill time between major plots, want a easy minion for a more major bad guy - bam! Pull out an Iron Man rogue.

The MCU only recently moved out of the whole "the only villains around are specifically the big, major ones who become the personal threats of the current movie" mindset, though. That mindset made using a lot of IM's villains hard, because they would have to be redesigned to be more... vitally connected (a la Whiplash) if they were going to appear.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 30th 2020 at 10:49:36 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#118893: Jun 30th 2020 at 10:58:31 AM

MODOK and Nefaria are two that I often think more as "general" rogues due their tendency to show up elsewhere in the MU rather than facing Iron Man specifically (and I can't say I particularly find Nefaria all that engaging). MODOK in particular has a Breakout Character thing going on where he has faced basically everyone under the sun.

MODOK I could see in Ant-Man 3 too. Might as well keep pilfering IM's rogues after Ghost, given Ant-Man's rogues gallery is pretty terrible (though I'm still surprised they haven't used Crossfire).

To me the "true-bred" IM's rogues gallery only really has three villains of note: The Mandarin, Justin Hammer and Crimson Dynamo (Dynamo less for himself and more for his sheer omnipresence as a character, man has like 13 iterations). All three of them have come and gone.

Edited by Gaon on Jun 30th 2020 at 11:01:00 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118894: Jun 30th 2020 at 11:01:43 AM

I don't really know what MODOK would do in Ant-Man. He's not really a "heist movie" kind of villain. More of a "sci-fi action" kind of baddie.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118895: Jun 30th 2020 at 11:02:32 AM

I’d like to see Living Laser for the spectacle.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118896: Jun 30th 2020 at 11:03:42 AM

Living Laser is my favorite IM villain just from concept and abilities alone.

I really want an Iron Man / Flash crossover just for the fun of Living Laser teaming up with Mirror Master.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#118897: Jun 30th 2020 at 11:10:00 AM

Well, MODOK generally comes with AIM, and I have always thought AIM would serve really well as Arch-Enemies for the Ant-Man family.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118900: Jun 30th 2020 at 11:15:54 AM

[up][up][up] Man it be dope if they brought in Laser & took him to the absolute limits of his powers.

It be Goddamn spectacular.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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