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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
One theory I've seen is that "Michelle Jones" is a fake name she's using to hide from her abusive dad.
Believe it or not, the MCU is not the first iteration to have Tony Stark play a role in the creation of a Spider-Man villain. In the 90s fox cartoon, Jonathan Ohn was a Stark scientist who research into interdimensional portals was scrapped due to Venom and Carnage using that technology to wreak havok in two previous episodes.
The Fantastic Four: Great, maybe he can take Paste Pot Pete off our hands.
Edited by windleopard on Jun 29th 2020 at 8:19:28 AM
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Makes sense to me. First it was a reference just for the hell of it. Then the fans liked the idea and they decided they liked it too, so they went Sure, Why Not?.
I have very complicated feelings on this. For one, the whole Mary Jane casting controversy was such BS and changing her name to appease racist comic book fans just grinds my gears. I guess it’s still better than what Star Wars did with their non-white characters, but it’s still annoying.
It’s sort of made even worse because “MJ” has no similarities to Mary Jane Watson, which is *almost* fine because Zendaya is great in the role and I like the character (not as much as Liz though, because she was great). However, why even go through the trouble at all? If you want to write Mary Jane, then write Mary Jane. Creating a new character that’s a nod to the iconic love interest but she really can’t be the actual MJ because people got pissed off is so...tone-deaf. It would have made much more of a statement if they had just stuck to their guns because they obviously wanted her to be Mary Jane originally.
And while we’re here, I love the MCU Spidey movies but I still haven’t forgotten the fact that they basically capitalized off of the story cues that originally belong to Miles’ character. To me, that’s what MJ represents: a means to be diverse without actually doing the hard work.
But like I said, Zendaya is amazing and I’m all for her being the female lead in the movies. She deserves it.
To be honest this seems like a pointless semantic debate. Is Michelle Jones a heavily altered and differently named version of Mary Jane Watson, or is she a new character with the same nickname and relationship to Peter Parker? What difference does it make?
Personally I like the character and think she has great chemistry with Peter as she is, so I don't really care about the hypothetical scenario where she has more in common with comic book MJ.
Here's the most important thing: the MCU has been its own property from Day One, borrowing from the comics but unafraid to take them somewhere different. Marvel's interpretation of Spider-Man fits right in. People need to get over this idea that they must slavishly obey previously established lore.
Edited by Fighteer on Jun 29th 2020 at 12:56:49 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Yeah, having Michelle Jones be the MCU equivalent to Mary Jane was admittedly a thing to process (not sure if it was due to Marvel Studios not wanting to give Sony any more inches than they need to so they can have a proper Spider-Man in the MCU or if that's just an inane conspiracy theory someone spouted), but Zendaya's execution in the role (especially in FFH) won me over.
And it's probably for the better since this is the universe where Hank Pym is a vastly better person who, despite being a grouchy pill at times, has treated Janet like she was the world and, so far as we know, has NEVER even entertained the idea of hitting her. Compare that to Comics!Hank.
Not to derail this conversation, but "only ever hit her one time" is a pretty common rationalization that you hear from abusers and abuse victims alike.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
x5,
x4: Furthermore, it's an action that comic book writers always bring up.
But enough of that ugliness. Let's change the subject.
It's moments like this
that make me so excited to see Deadpool appear in the MCU eventually.
Context: Hugh Jackman held a virtual X-Men reunion with Halle Berry, Patrick Stewart, Famke Janssen, and Ian McKellan via Zoom...and Ryan crashed it by appearing with Sophie Turner and James McAvoy. Sophie doesn't even stick around for long because she thought she was in a reunion for Game of Thrones.
Everyone opts out saying they have other franchise reunions to attend until it's just Ryan and Hugh...until Liev Schreiber pops up for an unofficial X-Men Origins: Wolverine reunion.
Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jun 29th 2020 at 1:47:43 PM
Comics "Purists":
- After War Machine and Hulk are on their second actors, the Avengers are founded as a SHIELD project containing only 3 of the original members, the Demon In A Bottle storyline and most of Hulk's supporting cast are sidelined, and Hawkeye makes a shadowed, unnamed cameo in his debut: "This is fine. Let's give them a billion dollars."
- After Heimdall is announced to be played by a very talented black actor: "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
- After MJ speaks/looks contrary to their expectations: "DOUBLE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
I only saw the image of the last 3. But hey, at least some of the others were there for some point, right? There have definitely been some parties I've been too drained to even go to, let alone stay at for long.
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 29th 2020 at 1:00:52 PM
Well, with MJ, you gotta admit it's weird how she's an In Name Only character ... who doesn't actually have the same name.
I actually do like the above-mentioned theory that she changed her name to avoid her father. Even though that's really dark for a lighthearted film. But then again, even Toby-Spidey had audible verbal abuse.
...You know who I'd like to appear in more Spider-Man media? Ursula Ditkovich and her father.
I’ve been reading that Hank storyline as part of my avengers liveblog recently
It’s interesting how much nuance of the original story is lost to the public consciousness.
It wasn’t just him hitting her. He had already been atrocious to her for an unspecified while before that, emotionally withdrawing and resenting her. Before he hit her he attacked her with his kill his friends robot to test it out.
And after the kill his friends to make them like him thing went down, Jan went off on him because she’d had to bury her true self for years to prop him up.
The relationship was probably always bad. And didn’t start under great circumstances
More than the only one time thing, what we can say is that Hank realized he’d gone beyond the pale and accepted when Jan demanded a divorce
Edited by Bocaj on Jun 29th 2020 at 2:21:03 PM
Forever liveblogging the AvengersUrsula was great in Spider-Man 2. One of Peter's few breaks from the Trauma Conga Line.

Initially was a nod. It’s like how TDKR had a quick reference at the end with the dude who takes over as Batman after Bruce being literally named Robin.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 29th 2020 at 8:05:56 AM