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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118826: Jun 29th 2020 at 8:00:01 AM

Initially was a nod. It’s like how TDKR had a quick reference at the end with the dude who takes over as Batman after Bruce being literally named Robin.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 29th 2020 at 8:05:56 AM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118827: Jun 29th 2020 at 8:10:32 AM

That's a weird retcon to make. "This chick is not Mary Jane, but she has the same initials and relationship to Peter. ...Eh, never mind, this chick actually is Mary Jane."

The legend has returned.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118828: Jun 29th 2020 at 8:13:40 AM

Guess they were just trolling us a bit.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118829: Jun 29th 2020 at 8:17:42 AM

One theory I've seen is that "Michelle Jones" is a fake name she's using to hide from her abusive dad.

For one thing, Spidey's villains weren't originally Tony Stark villains.

Believe it or not, the MCU is not the first iteration to have Tony Stark play a role in the creation of a Spider-Man villain. In the 90s fox cartoon, Jonathan Ohn was a Stark scientist who research into interdimensional portals was scrapped due to Venom and Carnage using that technology to wreak havok in two previous episodes.

..that Spider-man menace is STEALING every heroes adversaries,the nerve!

The Fantastic Four: Great, maybe he can take Paste Pot Pete off our hands.

Edited by windleopard on Jun 29th 2020 at 8:19:28 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118830: Jun 29th 2020 at 8:34:11 AM

[up][up][up] Makes sense to me. First it was a reference just for the hell of it. Then the fans liked the idea and they decided they liked it too, so they went Sure, Why Not?.

deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#118831: Jun 29th 2020 at 8:44:50 AM

I have very complicated feelings on this. For one, the whole Mary Jane casting controversy was such BS and changing her name to appease racist comic book fans just grinds my gears. I guess it’s still better than what Star Wars did with their non-white characters, but it’s still annoying.

It’s sort of made even worse because “MJ” has no similarities to Mary Jane Watson, which is *almost* fine because Zendaya is great in the role and I like the character (not as much as Liz though, because she was great). However, why even go through the trouble at all? If you want to write Mary Jane, then write Mary Jane. Creating a new character that’s a nod to the iconic love interest but she really can’t be the actual MJ because people got pissed off is so...tone-deaf. It would have made much more of a statement if they had just stuck to their guns because they obviously wanted her to be Mary Jane originally.

And while we’re here, I love the MCU Spidey movies but I still haven’t forgotten the fact that they basically capitalized off of the story cues that originally belong to Miles’ character. To me, that’s what MJ represents: a means to be diverse without actually doing the hard work.

But like I said, Zendaya is amazing and I’m all for her being the female lead in the movies. She deserves it.

BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#118832: Jun 29th 2020 at 9:05:22 AM

To be honest this seems like a pointless semantic debate. Is Michelle Jones a heavily altered and differently named version of Mary Jane Watson, or is she a new character with the same nickname and relationship to Peter Parker? What difference does it make?

Personally I like the character and think she has great chemistry with Peter as she is, so I don't really care about the hypothetical scenario where she has more in common with comic book MJ.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118833: Jun 29th 2020 at 9:07:30 AM

What difference does it make?

It has quite a bit of difference in regards to how or how not she’s written, and how committed the creators might or might not be to the character.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 29th 2020 at 9:07:39 AM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118834: Jun 29th 2020 at 9:10:15 AM

MJ hiding from her abusivec/crook father would be super dark, but also not unfitting for the character.

I kind of doubt that both Marvel and Sony would set up the MJ name as a throw away gag.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 29th 2020 at 11:11:56 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#118835: Jun 29th 2020 at 9:55:42 AM

Here's the most important thing: the MCU has been its own property from Day One, borrowing from the comics but unafraid to take them somewhere different. Marvel's interpretation of Spider-Man fits right in. People need to get over this idea that they must slavishly obey previously established lore.

Edited by Fighteer on Jun 29th 2020 at 12:56:49 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#118836: Jun 29th 2020 at 10:20:05 AM

Yeah, having Michelle Jones be the MCU equivalent to Mary Jane was admittedly a thing to process (not sure if it was due to Marvel Studios not wanting to give Sony any more inches than they need to so they can have a proper Spider-Man in the MCU or if that's just an inane conspiracy theory someone spouted), but Zendaya's execution in the role (especially in FFH) won me over.

[up] And it's probably for the better since this is the universe where Hank Pym is a vastly better person who, despite being a grouchy pill at times, has treated Janet like she was the world and, so far as we know, has NEVER even entertained the idea of hitting her. Compare that to Comics!Hank.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118837: Jun 29th 2020 at 10:25:48 AM

Not to mention he's not the one who has Ultron on his conscience. Which is doubly good for him since that's what caused the Sokovia Accords. Meaning, Hank would have been responsible for breaking up the Avengers on top of everything else.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118838: Jun 29th 2020 at 10:27:13 AM

[up][up] He's only ever hit her the one time even, its not like abuse is a common thing for him.

Well unless its his Ultimate version.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#118839: Jun 29th 2020 at 10:33:45 AM

Not to derail this conversation, but "only ever hit her one time" is a pretty common rationalization that you hear from abusers and abuse victims alike.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#118840: Jun 29th 2020 at 10:35:51 AM

The circumstances behind the hit and the obsession with it and justifying it vs endless reminders of it just makes me happy it isn’t in the movies.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118841: Jun 29th 2020 at 10:36:40 AM

To be precise, he was having a nervous breakdown and struck her doing a violent fit. He then went on to try to kill all his friends iirc.

He's since gotten that sort of thing treated.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#118842: Jun 29th 2020 at 10:43:09 AM

With how much of a mess Hank was at that point, he really should abstain from romantic relationships for a good while.

Wake me up at your own risk.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#118843: Jun 29th 2020 at 10:46:03 AM

[up]x5, [up]x4: Furthermore, it's an action that comic book writers always bring up.

But enough of that ugliness. Let's change the subject.

It's moments like this that make me so excited to see Deadpool appear in the MCU eventually.

Context: Hugh Jackman held a virtual X-Men reunion with Halle Berry, Patrick Stewart, Famke Janssen, and Ian McKellan via Zoom...and Ryan crashed it by appearing with Sophie Turner and James McAvoy. Sophie doesn't even stick around for long because she thought she was in a reunion for Game of Thrones.

Everyone opts out saying they have other franchise reunions to attend until it's just Ryan and Hugh...until Liev Schreiber pops up for an unofficial X-Men Origins: Wolverine reunion.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jun 29th 2020 at 1:47:43 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118844: Jun 29th 2020 at 10:59:02 AM

Comics "Purists":

  • After War Machine and Hulk are on their second actors, the Avengers are founded as a SHIELD project containing only 3 of the original members, the Demon In A Bottle storyline and most of Hulk's supporting cast are sidelined, and Hawkeye makes a shadowed, unnamed cameo in his debut: "This is fine. Let's give them a billion dollars."
  • After Heimdall is announced to be played by a very talented black actor: "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
  • After MJ speaks/looks contrary to their expectations: "DOUBLE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

[up]I only saw the image of the last 3. But hey, at least some of the others were there for some point, right? There have definitely been some parties I've been too drained to even go to, let alone stay at for long.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 29th 2020 at 1:00:52 PM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#118845: Jun 29th 2020 at 11:05:54 AM

Well, with MJ, you gotta admit it's weird how she's an In Name Only character ... who doesn't actually have the same name.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#118846: Jun 29th 2020 at 11:07:14 AM

Gwen Stacy when,where?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#118847: Jun 29th 2020 at 11:13:48 AM

[up] The back of my mind still wants to see Elle Fanning as her (maybe even as an MCU!Spider-Gwen), but it probably isn't meant to be. Besides, it'd probably be too hard to top Emma Stone.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118848: Jun 29th 2020 at 11:14:25 AM

I actually do like the above-mentioned theory that she changed her name to avoid her father. Even though that's really dark for a lighthearted film. But then again, even Toby-Spidey had audible verbal abuse.

...You know who I'd like to appear in more Spider-Man media? Ursula Ditkovich and her father.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118849: Jun 29th 2020 at 11:19:10 AM

I’ve been reading that Hank storyline as part of my avengers liveblog recently

It’s interesting how much nuance of the original story is lost to the public consciousness.

It wasn’t just him hitting her. He had already been atrocious to her for an unspecified while before that, emotionally withdrawing and resenting her. Before he hit her he attacked her with his kill his friends robot to test it out.

And after the kill his friends to make them like him thing went down, Jan went off on him because she’d had to bury her true self for years to prop him up.

The relationship was probably always bad. And didn’t start under great circumstances

More than the only one time thing, what we can say is that Hank realized he’d gone beyond the pale and accepted when Jan demanded a divorce

Edited by Bocaj on Jun 29th 2020 at 2:21:03 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#118850: Jun 29th 2020 at 11:29:19 AM

Ursula was great in Spider-Man 2. One of Peter's few breaks from the Trauma Conga Line.


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