TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#118751: Jun 28th 2020 at 1:23:09 AM

I'm not a fan of that scene because it contradicts a completely different scene in the Silver Age which established that Kingpin's vault is just a gigantic metal door that only he is strong enough to open. Spidey had to try WAY harder to open his vault than Kingpin does, even having to stand on the wall and pull with all the muscles in his body to open it a little.

That's a pretty irrefutable scene that clearly shows that Kingpin is physically stronger than Spider-Man, and it's not like Spidey had any reason to hold back on opening a door. I'm aware comics are constantly contradicting themselves, but Spidey's excuse of "nah, I always held back when you guys were beating the crap out of me" is one of my least favorite retcons.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118752: Jun 28th 2020 at 1:30:40 AM

Yeah but the Silver Age is pretty much it's own continuity. That was also the time were Superman towed at least several dozen planets behind him. Comics were very out of whack back then.

Kingpin being just a non-powered, if peak human guy, it doesn't really make sense that he'd be stronger than Spider-Man, who can lift trains and stuff. In more modern times, he has consistently been used as an opponent for the likes of Daredevil or the Punisher, who are clearly both way below that. One of his most iconic scenes is also him beating the Red Skull in Hand to Hand which he also didn't do just backhanded.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#118753: Jun 28th 2020 at 1:35:16 AM

I thought Marvel Silver Age was still the same continuity as the modern comics? I know DC has reset its continuity like 3 or 4 times now, but I thought Marvel comics has kept the same continuity throughout, just with a "sliding timescale" that continuously retcons the timeframe everything took place in, meaning the entire Marvel universe has taken place within only a few years.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jun 28th 2020 at 1:37:25 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118754: Jun 28th 2020 at 1:39:07 AM

Marvel never had a clear, hard continuity wide reboot like DC had multiple times, but it still constantly retcons older stories (even newer ones, for that matter) as it suits them, especially in regards to Origin stories.

No writer (except maybe Grant Morrison) treats Marvel History as if everything is in continuity, which is why I stopped treating it as one a long time ago too and always judge individual runs for what they are.

(Then again I stopped reading comics completely for about 2 years now, I've been shifting my focus entirely on Superhero Movies or TV series.)

Edited by Forenperser on Jun 28th 2020 at 2:02:16 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118755: Jun 28th 2020 at 5:50:53 AM

So Kingpin is responsible for One More Day? I respect him a lot less for this now.

The legend has returned.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118756: Jun 28th 2020 at 5:56:17 AM

Well Tony Stark is too, I guess.

He talked Pete into publicly unmasking and later hunted him down alongside the rest of the Anti—Reg side when he was unwilling to abide by his fascist methods anymore.

But yeah, Wilson's actions is what directly caused this shitshow.

Edited by Forenperser on Jun 28th 2020 at 3:08:03 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118757: Jun 28th 2020 at 5:57:01 AM

Marvel did release a history of the marvel universe comic recently that said the broad strokes everything is canon back to Jim Hammond and Namor

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118758: Jun 28th 2020 at 5:57:13 AM

Unmasking was Peter's own idea from what I remember. Tony just wanted Peter to publicly support the SHRA.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118759: Jun 28th 2020 at 6:09:14 AM

[up][up] Broad strokes is the keyword.

Allows for selectively choosing and retconning certain things when it's convenient.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118760: Jun 28th 2020 at 6:12:31 AM

Which isn’t so different to how marvel has always treated things

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ChumlyX1995 Since: Jan, 2020
#118761: Jun 28th 2020 at 6:21:11 AM

[up][up][up][up] But is Subbie from Kid Komics canon. The boy sailor who looks like a junior version of Namor?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118762: Jun 28th 2020 at 6:56:06 AM

Probably

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#118763: Jun 28th 2020 at 10:15:51 AM

Kingpin being stronger than Peter in the Silver Age could be explained by the fact that Peter was still a teenager, making him weaker than his adult version.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118764: Jun 28th 2020 at 10:42:16 AM

That too.

Spidey in his early years was only low-level superhuman.

The older he got, the stronger he got, to the point where he could even hold up collapsing buildings for a few moments.

Kingpin, inversely, was steadily brought down to a more realistic level for a guy with no powers. Still strong enough to give the likes of Frank Castle, Daredevil, Red Skull or Captain America a run for their money, but helpless when somebody like Peter actually takes off the kids gloves.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#118765: Jun 28th 2020 at 10:50:46 AM

I mean, Kingpin is a big dude, with a lot of weight to throw around, AND he's a comic character.

There's gonna be some brute strength exaggeration (to say nothing of what some olympic weightlifters and log throwing dudes his size are capable of).

And it's true that Pete probably wasn't at his peak strength due to being just a kid. He was strong for his size, and could really pull off some impressive feats if he pushed himself (Amazing Spiderman #33 anyone?).

That being said, it's also a massive fact that Peter holds back a lot. Most heroes and villains fail to understand just how much he pulls his punches until something happens to make him stop....because angry spiderman is never a good thing.

One Strip! One Strip!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118766: Jun 28th 2020 at 10:53:17 AM

Just read Superior Spider-Man to see how horrifying a Spidey with no morals is.

In his first appearance he punched Scorpions jaw clean off.

Non-superpowered thugs are really lucky Pete is such a nice guy.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118767: Jun 28th 2020 at 10:54:22 AM

Although that specific incident was less no morals and more no idea how much peter holds back

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118768: Jun 28th 2020 at 10:59:36 AM

It was just one example on top off my head. Take stabbing the Spider Slayer to death with his own blade then.

There were many incidents within this run that showed, yes, Spider-Man having a Thou Shalt Not Kill policy and general restraint absolutely is a good thing.

Edited by Forenperser on Jun 28th 2020 at 8:01:49 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#118769: Jun 28th 2020 at 11:06:35 AM

Yeah. I was also thinking of when Ock punched off Scorpion's jaw (though I've only heard about that one).

I understand he flipped the fuck out when he realized just how much Peter holds back.

Even his fellow heroes don't really understand how much Peter's pulls his punches. Most just think he's the annoying guy who does quips. I think Daredevil is the only one who might get just what Peter is really capable of (Peter was blinded once and freaked out, smashing a chimney into rubble, and Matt realized just how strong he really is).

There was also that one What If? where the Punisher killed Daredevil, Spidey went after him, got shot, had his identity exposed, which resulted in Aunt May being shot, which made Peter very unhappy and he went after Frank with killing intent...and Frank realized that Spidey had always gone easy on him before.

One Strip! One Strip!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118770: Jun 28th 2020 at 11:10:55 AM

Yeah, Frank is a lucky guy too. Other heroes already would've put him down^^

EDIT: Here, this is a great scene.

Frank: I don't want to hurt you!

Spidey: *literally ignoring his punches*

Click

grin

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118771: Jun 28th 2020 at 11:15:00 AM

Dumbass broke his own hands there.

And unlike Deadpool, he can't regen.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 28th 2020 at 11:15:21 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#118772: Jun 28th 2020 at 11:17:28 AM

Oh right. I guess we can add 616 Frank to the list of dudes who are aware of just how strong Peter really is.

I imagine he makes it a habit to never try and fight Peter head on again from that point.

Who wrote that story? It can't be Garth Ennis, or Frank would have destroyed Peter since mah Bad Ass Normal and all.

One Strip! One Strip!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118773: Jun 28th 2020 at 11:22:38 AM

I think it was the final story from Greg Rucka's run. Splendid one, btw.

Frank actually managed to outsmart Spidey and a few other Avengers for a bit, but in the end reality ensued and he was captured and put into a super-secure prison.

But alas, as you know comic book "Super-secure" prisons might as well be made out of tissue paper, and the next writer promptly put him out on the streets again, without even so much as an explanation.

Edited by Forenperser on Jun 28th 2020 at 8:24:17 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#118774: Jun 28th 2020 at 11:26:07 AM

Frank does have some morals, but yeah, at the end of the day, he's a killer.

Hell, I'd imagine even Wolverine is more honest about what he is than Frank is. Frank has convinced himself he's on a noble (if horrible crusade).

Logan flat out admits he's just a killer, even if rather indirectly with his best there is speech.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118775: Jun 28th 2020 at 11:40:33 AM

My favorite Punisher / Spidey moment (technically, at least) - even though they don't meet - is the bit in Comics! Civil War tie-ins, after Peter revealed his identity, where a bunch of non-powered crooks tried to attack the school Peter was working at at time as a reprisal.

They ran into Wolverine, who was protecting the school, and obviously ran like hell. Except then they ran into Punisher.

Punisher let them live to send a warning, an interesting sign of respect from a guy who - within that exact same storyline (albeit under a different writer) - gunned down a bunch of Cap's reformed allies just because they used to be criminals.

Still, I do prefer the comics - including many, many Spider-Man comics - that play Frank more as an antagonist than a good guy.


Total posts: 186,763
Top