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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118476: Jun 18th 2020 at 1:25:42 PM

[up][up][up]Certainly not after he'd already have his World Police bot designs turned against him in his own house.

[down]Not that I've seen, and this is why I've felt for a while that the X-Men are better kept as a separate property. Not out of segregation, but because it's a bit absurd to be xenophobic towards some people based on how they were born, when other people just decide to become more dangerous (or get experimented on), and get appreciated for it.
But then again, we do that in the real world all the time.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 18th 2020 at 3:30:59 AM

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#118477: Jun 18th 2020 at 1:27:29 PM

Were there ever an attempt at explanation for why in Marvel mutants were universally hated while other people with superpowers could get at least some level of respect? I never managed to wrap my head around that one, apart from the fact that mutants are supposed to represent oppressed minorities everywhere and so can't get a break.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#118478: Jun 18th 2020 at 1:30:04 PM

Racism in general stops making sense when you look at it for more than two seconds, but it'd be nice if they could show at least a couple normal humans they can more or less get along with instead of having the whole of humanity be a giant lynch mob waiting to happen.

Wake me up at your own risk.
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#118479: Jun 18th 2020 at 1:34:43 PM

I never realized that Cap only got punched once in Infinity War.

EDIT: Although I thought I remembered Cap getting knocked over by Outriders at one point or another. I guess claws attacks weren't counted?

Edited by MileRun on Jun 18th 2020 at 1:37:40 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118480: Jun 18th 2020 at 1:36:09 PM

[up][up][up] We were just talking about this. Yes, because the Mutants are the next step of the natural Evolution, and humans are afraid they'll get replaced.

Science experiments aren't an own species.

Edited by Forenperser on Jun 18th 2020 at 10:36:23 AM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#118481: Jun 18th 2020 at 1:48:10 PM

[up] And that's another reason to use Infinity Stones as the cause of Mutant births, because then The Blip means Mutants are going to become a much bigger part of the world soon, and people will get scared of that.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#118482: Jun 18th 2020 at 2:00:32 PM

Using the stones as the cause of mutants birth would even account for their number having slowly increased over the years. When only the Tesseract and the Time Stone were on Earth, safely locked away, only a couple of mutants per century would be born (which would allow Apocalypse and later on Logan to exist). Then as people began using the stones more often (starting with Red Skull, then continuing with Mar-Vell), their number increased (allowing more mutants to be born in the fifties onward), and exploded after 2012 where not a year would pass without a stone being used extensively on Earth. All bets are off once the Snap and then the Unsnap saw all the stones being present and used at full powers on Earth, which would mean a lot of 5 years old mutants.

By the way, I wonder if they will focus on the relationships between the snapped and the unsnapped people. Maybe there could be some resentment brewing between those who had five years of their life stolen only to return in a world where they had been replaced and those who had to live five years on a half empty world. Having mutant children among the Unsnapped would only exacerbate that.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#118483: Jun 18th 2020 at 2:28:22 PM

I think it's the perfect explanation because it completely justifies a scenario where Mutants are suddenly too common to hide and soon to become even more common, plus allows the uneasy masses to label Mutants as a symptom of how the world is changing way too much ever since those gosh darned superheroes started popping up out of nowhere. There's your plot for an X-Men movie.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#118484: Jun 18th 2020 at 2:40:42 PM

X-Men: Grand Design had the implication that because the public's first high profile exposure to mutants was Namor (you know, the asshole who flooded New York, attacked hospitals and murdered innocent divers and sailors in the Golden Age), it formed a multigenerational prejudice that never went away.

Edited by comicwriter on Jun 18th 2020 at 2:40:51 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118485: Jun 18th 2020 at 2:43:11 PM

I knew Namor was good for nothing.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#118486: Jun 18th 2020 at 3:02:00 PM

Given that mutants are a metaphor for marginalized classes and mutant oppression is supposed to be a stand-in for real-world oppression, tying the origins of anti-mutant sentiment to a verifiable act of deliberate, mutant-caused terrorism kind of sends a questionable message.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118487: Jun 18th 2020 at 3:03:59 PM

On the other hand, how many people have blamed muslims for 9 / 11?

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118488: Jun 18th 2020 at 3:07:04 PM

I find it pretty funny that the one Avengers movie that used to not have much plot relevance has the potential to have all the plot relevance thanks to whatever happens to Sokovia.

The legend has returned.
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#118489: Jun 18th 2020 at 3:11:36 PM

It was always relevant because of the Sokovia Accords. Also they might not actually do anything more with Sokovia.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118490: Jun 18th 2020 at 3:26:30 PM

I meant compared to the other 3, it's much more of a Monster of the Week movie.

The legend has returned.
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#118491: Jun 18th 2020 at 3:37:04 PM

Oh yeah, definitely doesn't feel like that critical a piece of the Infinity Saga.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#118492: Jun 18th 2020 at 3:50:02 PM

Damn, Wanda, Vision, and the Mind Stone all got dissed. And Age of Ultron also laid the foundations for Thor: Ragnarok, as well as mentions in Ant-Man, Spider-Man: Homecoming, and others.

If there's any movie from Phase Two that I'd say was the most irrelevant to the overall Infinity Saga, it would it be Iron Man 3. That film didn't really introduce a whole lot for the franchise and what it did was very minor in the grand scheme of things. There's Tony having his arc reactor removed, setting up why Tony wanted to build Ultron, and Harley's cameo during Tony's funeral in Endgame. But overall? I would say you could safely skip it without being lost watching the films that came after it.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118493: Jun 18th 2020 at 4:10:00 PM

I think the context for why Tony’s bad decision making is important

Not essential but it adds a lot to Tony’s behavior in civil war and a infinity war

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118494: Jun 18th 2020 at 4:32:13 PM

I'd say Thor: The Dark World and The Incredible Hulk are pretty much neck and neck with it in terms of relevance.

The legend has returned.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118495: Jun 18th 2020 at 4:40:01 PM

[up][up][up]It established the trend of Tony unnecessarily making himself into everyone's worst enemy.

Thor: The Bad One at least gave us an Infinity Stone (and then put it on Knowhere), established Frigga's importance (...and also killed her off, grumble grumble), began clearing Thor's path to the Throne...

The Trans-American Hulk of course gave us Hulk and Ross, set up the idea of Banner trying to Control Hulk, established that there was still work done on derivative super-soldier serum...
Leader and Abomination were cancelled, of course.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 18th 2020 at 6:45:09 AM

BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#118496: Jun 18th 2020 at 4:40:12 PM

Hey, those are the three I haven't watched, how convenient.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#118497: Jun 18th 2020 at 4:40:55 PM

The Dark World did end up being unexpectedly relevant in Endgame, though.

Time travel to the MCU's greatest hits! The Avengers! Guardians of the Galaxy! and... the second Thor movie. tongue

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#118498: Jun 18th 2020 at 4:43:43 PM

TDW not only gives us the Reality Stone but sets up part of Ragnarok and is even revisited for a bit in Endgame.

[nja]'d by [up]

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Jun 18th 2020 at 4:44:53 AM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#118499: Jun 18th 2020 at 4:45:20 PM

[nja]

The Dark World's not great, but it's important to the overall arc.

But The Incredible Hulk is a film that I can agree is mostly unnecessary. Most of the plot points aren't followed up on in later films. We're basically reintroduced to Bruce in The Avengers (2012), so you're not going to be too lost if you don't watch the first film. And while it did introduce Ross, he doesn't have any interactions with Banner and nothing specific from the film is referenced aside from the final fight with Harlem, which is mostly glossed over.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jun 18th 2020 at 7:46:12 AM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118500: Jun 18th 2020 at 4:48:24 PM

Actually, Thor the Bad One is the official start of the Infinity Quest. Prior to that movie, there was just the Tesseract, and Feige didn't actually confirm it was the Space Stone until the year Thor 2 came out. It was in moving the Reality Stone to Knowhere that it was established that there were two stones in play.

The Incredible Hulk, again, established that there were projects making knock-off Super Soldiers, which is important to Cap 2 and Civil War. But not more beyond that. But yeah, it's probably the most self-contained film. And Hulk's probably the most self-contained character. No pun intended.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 18th 2020 at 6:51:59 AM


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