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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#118301: Jun 15th 2020 at 9:03:05 AM

The MCU has this thing where Superheroes who where masks will remove those masks as often as possible. They really need to not do this with Doom. Heck, maybe they should cast different people for Doom's voice, Doom's body, and Victor's face pre-masking.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#118302: Jun 15th 2020 at 9:03:49 AM

The omnidisciplinary scientist trope reminds me of a scene from the Avengers.

  • Hill: When did you become an expert in thermonuclear astrophysics?
  • Tony: Last night.


Speaking of Doom, it is difficult to know what approach they would take with the character, since there are several cases of Adaptational Heroism/ Nice Guy (Loki and Nebula) and Adaptational Villainy/ Jerkass (Ego, Hela and Ronan)

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jun 15th 2020 at 9:07:42 AM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#118303: Jun 15th 2020 at 9:23:44 AM

I'm really big on the idea of Sokovia as Latveria and having Doom's Latveria, rebuild with some sort of nanotch, being this Crystal Spires and Togas place filmed in Dubrovnik (which you may recognize as Kings Landing in Game of Thrones and Canto Blight in Star Wars: The Last Jedi.

I like it, because Dubrovnik used to be Ragusa, and was a Republic connected to the Italian world. I would assume that Latveria was so named in the comics in reference to Latvia, but my suggestion is to spin it as indicating ties to the Roman empire.

Not to mention, from what I remember of Age of Ultron, I did get the sense that Sokovia was supposed to be reminiscent of Serbia/Croatia.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118304: Jun 15th 2020 at 9:32:33 AM

I feel like Doom would be a jovial Nolanverse Bane-esque guy around most people but is very harsh and angry whenever Reed's in the same room as him, basically like he is in the comics, but more subdued and terrifying instead of hammy.

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Jun 15th 2020 at 12:33:29 PM

The legend has returned.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118305: Jun 15th 2020 at 10:34:45 AM

[up][up][up]This is pretty much it. Omnidisciplinary Scientist can be explained in part as "when you're smart enough, you can pick up a new field really quickly." It explains how these scientists can put the work in for multiple phd programs in a short amount of time. Hell, we see Tony, whose background was in mechanical engineering and robotics (and computer programming, artificial intelligence, and digital displays, apparently) become an expert in:

  • bio-nuclear anthrax Thermonuclear astrophysics
  • Hollywood Hacking
  • Architecture
  • Alien technology systems
  • Biomedical engineering
  • Near-infinite propulsion
  • Nanotechnology that apparently contains a near-infinite power source
  • Nuclear physics (including synthesizing a new element that's somehow more stable than all known theoretical elements that actual nuclear physicists work on)
  • Quantum time travel (and somehow learning the quantum realm better and faster than Hank or Janet...)

Actually, those last two are just making me mad now.

So anyway, by the time comics Hank created Ultron, wasn't he already an expert on analyzing (his) brainwaves and applying it to other beings(Ant control!)? So really the hard part was building the robot body. And for a guy who has already invented dimensional-shifting violations of the Square-Cube Law, that probably shouldn't be that hard.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 15th 2020 at 12:49:44 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118306: Jun 15th 2020 at 10:38:38 AM

Reed's Intellect I'd say is vast enough to qualify as a 'Superpower'.

Dude's insane in that regard. Tony at least is a bit more focused on engineering.

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BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#118307: Jun 15th 2020 at 11:11:20 AM

[up] Theoretically Tony's expertise is focused, but whenever he wants to he can just pick up a new field and make breakthroughs that experts who have been studying that field there entire lives have never come up with.

I would like a version of the Marvel universe Tony is just the world's topmost expert in robotics, Hank is leading expert in particle physics, Bruce is the world's greatest radiation physicist, etc. and none of them are that well versed in areas beyond there field of study, instead of having these weird Intelligence Power Levels.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#118308: Jun 15th 2020 at 11:21:29 AM

I guess Reed would be aerospace engineering and interdimensional physics?

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118309: Jun 15th 2020 at 11:41:31 AM

[up][up]Maybe have Janet be the specialist on entomology and translating insect thought then?

[up]Reed can make sense as an Omnidisciplinary Scientist post-empowering, as his mind is now plastic and more capable of varied, expanding thought. But prior to the empowering, he should focus on interdimensional exploration, and that can be the way the Four get empowered.

And, because I really want more to be done (in the MCU) with The Maker, have him be an alternate universe Reed, who also specialized in interdimensional exploration. But this version didn't have the rest of the Four, so he didn't go on the trip that empowered them. Instead, a different experiment gave him the ability to tap into, or transfer between, the Reed Richards of various universes that didn't get the elastic mind empowerment (that mind being too incompatible), and as a result he learned from their collective experience and became an Omnidisciplinary Scientist but with Funny Valentine "D4C" powers, and explaining the post-Secret Wars version of the character. He'd go evil from believing his mind was the only thing that matters, an exaggerated version of regular Reed's obsession, with regular Reed being balanced and kept from being evil by the rest of the Four.
Making Reed a regular Multiversal character would also explain the failed versions of the Four pre-MCU, as just being less successful versions from alternate realities, but also because they're mutated, they're also safe from The Maker hijacking Reed's mind.

DOOM can be a Master of None who has a bit of justification in living in Reed's shadow in particular, since he's basically Always Second Best in several fields, but most of those fields Reed is best. Therefore he supplements his knowledge with Magic. How he'd get that magic, I don't know... Mephisto?

Adam Brashear would be the expert on anti-matter (and thus its random bullshit), and in the MCU could've been one of the leading minds on Project P.E.G.A.S.U.S.

Doc Samson as the foremost psychiatrist and psychologist.

Beast as the foremost expert on physical mutations (as in, a better understanding than Xavier himself), with Xavier specializing more on psionics.

Amadeus Cho... I dunno.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 15th 2020 at 2:00:28 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118310: Jun 15th 2020 at 11:52:38 AM

Speaking of the Maker, IRRC in the Ultimate Verse, Tony is actually canonically smarter than Reed, which the latter always resented him for, one of the many reasons he went bad. Meaning, he kinda had the same dynamic with Tony that Doom had with 616 Reed. Which makes sense, the Maker is in many ways like Doom, only even worse.

Ultimate Tony's intelligence was also a superpower. Which manifested in form of a brain tumor. Yeah, I know why I stopped reading comics x)

Edited by Forenperser on Jun 15th 2020 at 8:53:03 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#118311: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:10:18 PM

Is Jessica Jones even a low-level superhuman? Like, Robyn knocks her out with a 2x4. Not stunned, knocked out cold, for hours.

My various fanfics.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118312: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:11:44 PM

Jessica is kind of a glass cannon.

Hits really hard, but still has the durability of a normal human being.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#118313: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:15:26 PM

Jessica and Danny got nerfed the hardest out of anyone in the Netflix shows other than, I guess, Trish.

Like, Danny's whole thing is that he's the best martial artist in the MU, and he got his ass absolutely beaten by Matt.

So why the fuck is he even on the Defenders at that point? Because he has one super-punch that can stun Luke for a second, but then it takes him like an hour to recharge?

He's worthless.

My various fanfics.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118314: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:18:09 PM

Advertising?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118315: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:20:36 PM

Like, Danny's whole thing is that he's the best martial artist in the MU, and he got his ass absolutely beaten by Matt.

It's up for debate if Danny is the best martial artist in the MU. It's been stated at least twice that Shang Chi surpasses him in skill and Matt is no pushover when it comes to fighting either so him beating Danny doesn't really mean the latter is nerfed.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#118316: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:21:34 PM

Ok. Now lets move one.

Because I'm not in the mood to dunk on Danny Rand again. It doesn't offer anything new.

Jessica being a Glass Cannon is fair, though she's still tougher than most normal humans, and everyone looks like a Glass Cannon compared to Luke Cage.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Jun 15th 2020 at 1:22:38 PM

One Strip! One Strip!
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#118317: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:23:35 PM

I'm fine with a few characters being Renaissance Men so long as there isn't an implication that they can out-genius all of the specialists in their own fields. I can't see Doom limiting himself to being an expert on one thing; he would insist on mastering everything and completely deny being second best at everything. Actually now I want to make it a thing that for any given field there's exactly one person who can definitively claim to be better at it than Doom, although that would mean that Reed Richards would be just one of Doom's scientific rivals.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118318: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:23:48 PM

Jessica can also jump really high, unlike Luke.

[up] An important part of Doom's character is also that he is Always Second Best in both science AND magic.

Edited by Forenperser on Jun 15th 2020 at 9:26:12 PM

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118319: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:27:11 PM

Danny's Iron Fist powers being nerfed to only being able to able to punch really hard once in a while was what really solidified that. In the comics he has a whole wealth of ki and ki abilities he can use.

That's the cool dynamic there, imo. Shang is the best martial artist around but he doesn't have the superpowers guys like Danny or his other students like Spider-Man have - he's not as powerful, but he is better.

Ironically, I think the last word we got on Shang in the films was that he's getting more explicit powers.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118320: Jun 15th 2020 at 1:09:47 PM

Shang’s apparently getting clone abilities.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#118322: Jun 15th 2020 at 1:20:40 PM

Begun the spider clones wars have

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#118323: Jun 15th 2020 at 2:26:16 PM

Jessica Jones is the strange case of a character who has super strength, but not super durability as a secondary power.

—-

I imagine that Shang from the movies will have powers, although he will continue to be weaker than guys like Hulk or Thor.

At most they will put Shang on the same level as Loki and Spiderman.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jun 15th 2020 at 2:31:18 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#118324: Jun 15th 2020 at 3:38:02 PM

I think they establish in the third season that Jessica has minor super-durability, but VERY minor, just slightly higher than your average dude, and she has minor super-healing, but also VERY minor. She is able to jump really high, and I believe in terms of raw physical strength she outdoes even Luke Cage, though he's close behind her and has FAR higher durability.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#118325: Jun 15th 2020 at 3:41:01 PM

Jessica Jones is a warrior with constitution of like 9 when it should be 12-13

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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