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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118276: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:04:49 AM

@Iron Man's superpowers.

The best way to put is imo is that Tony Stark doesn't have a superpower, but he did create a weapon / prosthetic that allows him to temporarily acquire superpowers.

Tony's intelligence isn't necessarily a superpower, but the Iron Man suit's many, many weapons absolutely are.

Intellect in comics books has always been a really weird thing when used in comparison. Comic books love making lists of "the 1-5 smartest people in existence" but don't really do much with what that means.

I'd say that if you have an intelligence that explicitly outstrips what one can do with regular brain functions (enhanced perception, faster neuron firing speed, whatever) you've got a superpower: so Brainiac, with his super-supercomputer brain, has super-intellect. In-universe, I don't believe Tony is intended to have an enhanced brain, so I wouldn't call that super intelligence.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 15th 2020 at 12:09:25 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118277: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:07:06 AM

I love how Rocket warns him "you're only a genius on Earth."

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118278: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:17:41 AM

Hank Pym creating Ultron might be one of the worst applications of the omnidisciplinary scientist trope. How is a guy known for working with bugs and chemicals suddenly know about robotics?

In the movies it's so bad that all of his villains and all of Spidey's villains are people Tony Stark pissed off.

Well, that isn't entirely accurate. Stane simply wanted Stark's company and didn't seem to have anything personal against him and Vanko was taking out his issues with Howard out on Tony.

Edited by windleopard on Jun 15th 2020 at 12:17:53 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118279: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:23:26 AM

Not to mention that Hank somehow programmed an AI using his own brain patterns. He basically made a mental clone of himself and put it in a robot.

Edited by M84 on Jun 16th 2020 at 3:23:46 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118280: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:23:48 AM

The concept of "these are different scientists who specialize in different things" tends to be alien in comic books. Intelligence in comics runs on DBZ rules: if you're smarter than someone else, then you're immediately better at them at all branches of science, thought and study regardless of specialty or training.

Which means what any particular scientist does tends to be vague. And in the case of guys like Hank Pym, even in universe characters are derided as obsolete because one or two other guys are famously smarter than them. It's... weird. Imo the characters who get hit hardest are the "not-quite-big-name" ones like Mr. Terrific: we know he's the smartest guy on DC's Earth, but hell if any writer can actually agree on what he does.

The MCU does this as well, but maybe a bit less so. Tony is explicitly not as good at biotech stuff as Bruce is, which is why they were working together in Ultron. Being good at biotech doesn't translate into knowing quantum physics, so instead of inventing a time machine Bruce accidentally invents immortality. But then, Tony can also master all of the branches of science needed to perfectly understand the Tesseract in a single evening.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 15th 2020 at 12:25:50 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118281: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:25:34 AM

The Marvel comics occasionally play it a bit more realistically. Reed Richards for example is a typical Omnidisciplinary Scientist...but he's got one glaring blindspot - he has no ability to grasp magic. This is the one field where Doctor Doom truly outshines him.

Edited by M84 on Jun 16th 2020 at 3:26:09 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#118282: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:35:19 AM

Nonsense, DOOM outshines Richards in every way!

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118283: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:38:43 AM

God I want Doom to be done right.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118284: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:50:52 AM

Honestly there is so much more to Doom than just obsession with Richards.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118285: Jun 15th 2020 at 12:59:54 AM

Personally, I never saw what people liked in Doom in the comics. He comes across as every bit the petty, entitled mac child the movies portray him as, with the only difference being the movies are honest about what a bastard Doom is.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118286: Jun 15th 2020 at 1:48:14 AM

[up] Doom has a genuinely noble side.

Edited by Forenperser on Jun 15th 2020 at 10:48:39 AM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118287: Jun 15th 2020 at 1:59:55 AM

Depending on the Writer of course. Some writers emphasize the "Noble" part of Noble Demon, others emphasize the "Demon" part. And some make the mistake of going all noble or all demon with Doom. Mark Waid being one of the latter - he's the one who wrote the story arc where Doom made a skinsuit out of his former lover Valeria as part of a Deal with the Devil.

Most writers however never forget Doom's pettiness and insecurity when it comes to Richards. Heck, the climax of the Battleworld crossover event was Victor admitting that Reed is smarter than him. Which is immediately followed by Victor trying to kill him.

Edited by M84 on Jun 15th 2020 at 5:05:27 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118288: Jun 15th 2020 at 2:04:51 AM

My view is that Doom wants to be seen as noble which motivates him to perform the occasional act of altruism. He's the super villain equivalent of a celebrity who donates to charity to put on a benevolent image to hide a far darker reality.

Edited by windleopard on Jun 15th 2020 at 2:07:04 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118289: Jun 15th 2020 at 2:06:17 AM

While Doom has moments of genuine nobility, they are just that - moments.

Most of the time he's just a petty jerk who cares more about the image of nobility rather than actually being noble.

Edited by M84 on Jun 15th 2020 at 5:08:39 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118290: Jun 15th 2020 at 2:07:58 AM

The previous movies never really get that he is both a master of science & magic.

Hopefully since the MCU both incorporates science & magic, we can hopefully get a Doom that uses more of his arsenal.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118291: Jun 15th 2020 at 2:08:52 AM

Even without taking into account his obsession with destroying Reed's life over a stupid college grudge, Victor's the kind of guy who'd gladly stiff Luke Cage on a $200 payment he could easily afford.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#118292: Jun 15th 2020 at 4:39:25 AM

Just you wait

Doombots,doombots everywhere

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#118293: Jun 15th 2020 at 5:59:41 AM

Well the MCU now has the "it was a Skrull", "it was a hologram from Mysterio" and "it is a time displaced clone" excuses ready (and AoS had the "it was/is a LMD"). The fun can now begin.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#118294: Jun 15th 2020 at 6:35:00 AM

God I want Doom to be done right.

You and the rest of the Internet.

The previous movies never really get that he is both a master of science & magic.

For that, I blame Tom Rothman and his Fox Executives.

Even when the 2005 and 2015 movies doubled down on science (because magic and superheroes? That would never work out!), Doom was still interpreted as a pompous business guy and a vain punk who devolves into a serial killer with a god complex, respectively.

Do any of those sound like the ideal Doom?

Just you wait.

Doombots! Doombots everywhere!

Just you wait. Sokovia is just waiting to be called Latveria. Any year now...

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118295: Jun 15th 2020 at 8:14:23 AM

I can definitely see Sokovia rebranding itself as Latveria due to an upstart scientist with an iron mask taking it over in a coup while everyone else was distracted with the fallout of the Blip.

The legend has returned.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118296: Jun 15th 2020 at 8:26:20 AM

That's just the way these things go.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#118297: Jun 15th 2020 at 8:39:53 AM

[up][up] That's basically how I pictured Latveria happening.

Sokovia + Robot Rampage + Mass Evacuation + Seismic event of Sokovia rising and dropping out of the sky + Half of all civilization turning into dust + Bold doctor rebuilds from stuff that's left of Sokovia during the 5 years of depression = The Proud Kingdom of Latveria.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jun 15th 2020 at 11:56:34 AM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#118298: Jun 15th 2020 at 8:45:34 AM

How’s that castle?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#118299: Jun 15th 2020 at 8:56:25 AM

Don't forget that all the Ultron bots laying around could make for the perfect starting point for an army of Doombots.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#118300: Jun 15th 2020 at 9:01:45 AM

[up] Found that theory just recently. And even if it was just one Ultron drone, it shouldn't be hard for Glorious Doctor Doom to reverse engineer it into the architecture for the usual Doombot.

[up][up] The castle was built by Doombots who get it done faster than a team of humans would. The rustic look was because it made Victor feel more important.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jun 15th 2020 at 12:02:00 PM


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