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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118251: Jun 14th 2020 at 5:52:25 PM

Karate Kid is fun because the Legion of Super-Heroes have a rule that you have to have at least one not sucky superpower to join and they looked at Karate Kid karate super good and went “yes this qualifies as a super power”

Edited by Bocaj on Jun 14th 2020 at 8:53:23 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#118252: Jun 14th 2020 at 5:58:40 PM

I mean, if you can beat Superman with Kung Fu, then I'd say it really does count as a super power.

He doesn't need time to prepare (like certain rich bat shaped dudes), just the right type of high kick.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118253: Jun 14th 2020 at 6:00:59 PM

If you can kick the man of steel without breaking your own leg, you have a superpower.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118255: Jun 14th 2020 at 7:53:47 PM

One thing that Badass "normal" comicbook heroes rarely address is how much damage they do to themselves in the course of training and fighting the way they do.

In this respect, Batman is actually the most realistic. It's made clear that his career as Batman has taken a toll on his body, one that catches up to him in various adaptations where he ages. In the DCAU for example, by the time of Batman Beyond he's in terrible shape even for his age (though he still retains his old combat skills). He has to walk with a cane and he has a heart condition that requires medication. He tried to keep up by compensating with high-tech suits (and even a Powered Armor at one point), but even that wasn't enough.

The Punisher in Ennis' MAX series is also fairly realistic when it comes to showing the consequences of trying to be a Badass Normal vigilante as one ages. Frank takes more and more punishment which takes a heavier toll on him as he ages culminating in him dying in a final firefight.

MCU Steve Rogers by contrast doesn't really have to worry about this. The Super Serum not only made him a Peak Human, it kept him a Peak Human. It even slowed down his aging - he's over 100 years old at the end of Endgame and still looks pretty good for that age.

Steve Rogers essentially got all of the awesomeness of the Badass Normal with none of the tradeoffs.

Edited by M84 on Jun 14th 2020 at 11:05:24 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#118256: Jun 14th 2020 at 8:06:39 PM

Well, there are a number of martial arts which claim (or have claimed, at any rate) that mastery of them can let people become immune to bullets, punch through solid rock, levitate in mid-air, etc. See Supernatural Martial Arts.

Which raises a question: in a setting where those claims are true, does mastery of those abilities count as a superpower? It's not as though they have some innate physical difference that lets them do things we can't; they've just learned how to do things that we don't know how to do.

Like, does Dr. Strange knowing magic spells count as a superpower? Or how about Tony Stark's ability to build ultra-advanced machinery (in a cave WITH SCRAPS!)?

Basically, it's Clarke's Third Law ("Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"), only applied to gym classes.

Edited by RavenWilder on Jun 14th 2020 at 8:08:06 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118257: Jun 14th 2020 at 8:11:10 PM

[up]Magic is totally a superpower. Even if it's a setting where anyone can learn it, it's still a superpower.

The definition of "superpower" is kind of vague anyway. Heck, one could argue that the iconic Superman isn't superpowered...by the standards of his own race. His abilities are a natural part of his Kryptonian physiology and the way it reacts to yellow sunlight.

Edited by M84 on Jun 14th 2020 at 11:14:09 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#118258: Jun 14th 2020 at 8:16:22 PM

Okay, then does stuff like Tony Stark's or Hank Pym's engineering abilities count as a superpower? If not, why not? Most of what they do would be impossible for any real person to accomplish.

EDIT: I generally take "superpower" to be short for "superhuman power", so aliens with abilities beyond what humans can achieve would still qualify.

Edited by RavenWilder on Jun 14th 2020 at 8:17:09 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118259: Jun 14th 2020 at 8:18:49 PM

[up]No. They aren't superpowered in the context of the setting. None of what they do is technically impossible for any other person with the same educational background and level of intelligence. It's just that people like that are incredibly rare even in the MCU. It's a plot point in Iron Man 2 that Tony realizes he's not especially unique, since Ivan Vanko was able to rival him.

Edited by M84 on Jun 14th 2020 at 11:20:15 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118260: Jun 14th 2020 at 8:31:57 PM

In the Legion of Super-Heroes, super-intelligence is considered a superpower. Its why Braniac 5 qualified for the club.

I would personally count it but that's not a universal opinion.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118261: Jun 14th 2020 at 8:40:42 PM

Super-Intelligence is one of the hardest powers to write. Writing a character who is stronger than you or can fly is one thing. Writing a character who is smarter than you can be a bit trickier.

In the comics it's arguable that Tony Stark might qualify as superpowered based on his intelligence. It's more obvious in the case of Reed Richards though.

Edited by M84 on Jun 14th 2020 at 11:42:24 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118262: Jun 14th 2020 at 8:50:19 PM

Comics (and movies) Tony Stark has two superpowers: super-intelligence and super-bad-decision-making.

Sometimes they cancel out. Sometimes they don't.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118263: Jun 14th 2020 at 8:58:11 PM

He also has the uncanny ability to piss people off.

This is true in both the movies and the comics. In the movies it's so bad that all of his villains and all of Spidey's villains are people Tony Stark pissed off.

In the comics there was an entire story arc revolving around the Mandarin's Rings of Power looking for people who hate Tony Stark to act as their new wielders so they could kill him. The Rings didn't have to look very hard.

In all fairness, a good number of the people Tony Stark pisses off are assholes.

Edited by M84 on Jun 14th 2020 at 11:58:28 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#118264: Jun 14th 2020 at 9:05:45 PM

Imagine if they got to some of the Avengers roster after some of his stunts bit them in the butt.

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118265: Jun 14th 2020 at 9:14:45 PM

The funny thing is that Tony isn't even the worst in this regard.

In the MCU Hank Pym pissed off damn near everyone who worked with him. Including his own daughter. The only ones who got along with him were his wife Janet and Scott.

Edited by M84 on Jun 15th 2020 at 12:14:58 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118266: Jun 14th 2020 at 9:18:44 PM

Hank's the kinda guy where your never in the wrong if you decide to punch him in the face.

Cause he most definitely asked for it. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#118267: Jun 14th 2020 at 9:26:31 PM

And yet he has a lot less people going supervillain on him.

And doesn't have the whole Ultron and meltdown hanging over him.

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118268: Jun 14th 2020 at 9:31:36 PM

Which is funny since in the comics Ultron is Hank Pym's fault.

As for fewer supervillains? He's only got two movies under his belt, tbf. And they still managed to squeeze in three supervillains who are villains because they don't like him. Yellowjacket, Ghost, and Goliath (hey, Bill Foster was Ghost's accomplice after all). Sure they had their own issues too, but their hatred of Hank was a big part of why they went down a bad road.

Edited by M84 on Jun 15th 2020 at 12:34:07 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118269: Jun 14th 2020 at 9:33:42 PM

In that sense this Hank is way better off than comic-Hank.

He didn't build Ultron & his marriage to Janet is 100% iron-clad with nary a hint of him ever hitting her.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118270: Jun 14th 2020 at 9:35:23 PM

Hank didn't just build Ultron either. He based Ultron off of his own brain patterns.

Ultron is essentially Hank but without anything keeping him from actually acting on his own misanthropy.

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#118271: Jun 14th 2020 at 10:04:40 PM

It might be because Hank is a lot less interested in saving or improving the world than both Tony and his dad were.

Yeah, lets remember that Howard Stark had a lot of enemies too. Tony learned it from somebody.tongue

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118272: Jun 14th 2020 at 10:41:34 PM

It's kind of funny that Hank quitting was Right for the Wrong Reasons in a way. He mostly left because he didn't like Howard Stark to the point of holding it against Tony too. While he was wrong about Howard, he was right to leave since HYDRA had already compromised things.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118273: Jun 14th 2020 at 10:42:40 PM

Yeah, Hank would probably have a lot more enemies if he was actually interested enough in the world to put himself out there more and interact with more people.

[up] There's an interesting What If there.

Edited by Bocaj on Jun 14th 2020 at 1:44:02 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118274: Jun 14th 2020 at 10:45:16 PM

OTOH he'd probably have more friends too.

It's kind of sobering to realize that Scott is probably the closest thing Hank has to a friend.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118275: Jun 14th 2020 at 10:46:27 PM

Scott is ridiculously patient with Hank. Its amazing.

He might be the nicest hero in the MCU

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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