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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118126: Jun 7th 2020 at 7:09:05 PM

Ebony Maw's MVP outside of Thanos though. He didn't need two attempts to complete his mission (which Glaive, Proxima, Cull, Thor, the Guardians, and Avengers all needed), and actually beat Iron Man, Doctor Strange, and Wong in short order, only sustaining a cut on his head before he got serious, and a burned hand afterwards. Yeah he got spaced, but that still almost killed Peter (and Doctor Strange... "not a great plan!")

Really, the Maw, Thanos, and ...M'Baku are the only characters who did not fail in any capacity. Though the Maw died and Thanos almost died. So... M'Baku MVP of Infinity War?

Wakanda alone, though... when they have the home field advantage, it took a sizeable fleet of universal/galactic raiders to give them a challenge.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#118127: Jun 7th 2020 at 7:25:07 PM

Hell, the only reason there was even a fight was because....they didn't have any defences near the city it seems. I guess they relied too much on the barrier.

Although since Corvus Glaive was already inside just waiting for Wanda to leave, it seems they didn't actually have any issues getting past it.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118128: Jun 7th 2020 at 7:50:26 PM

Ebony Maw (and Cull, technically) vs Dr. Strange, Iron Man and Spidey in NY is still my favorite fight in the entirety of the MCU.

I'm really looking forward to more of that: strange powers, asymmetrical fights, leading to cool visuals and creative action scenes.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 7th 2020 at 7:56:29 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#118129: Jun 7th 2020 at 7:52:37 PM

Their first fight on the streets of New York felt very much like a casual crossover brawl from the comics, in a good way.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118130: Jun 7th 2020 at 8:00:56 PM

[up][up][up]Wakanda at full strength would've lasted a lot longer. But we saw that they lost several airships and a lot of weapons during BP, Shuri and Ayo (second in command of the Dora Milaje) were busy with Vision, and there's no guarantee they were able to mobilize all of their forces right away. They still had a fantastic showing. Hell, they did almost all of the work in Endgame, with only Thor, Scarlet Witch, War Machine, and Falcon (in that order) making much of a difference otherwise. Maybe Groot, too.

There are serious questions as to how Corvus got in, and how Cull Obsidian (and then Hulkbuster and Cap) pretty much teleported over to where Vision was.

[up][up]I think the fight on Titan might be my favorite fight in the MCU, due to how creatively Doctor Strange and Thanos fought. "Mr. Lord", Spider-Man and Gamora also impressed.

[up][up]While Cull did next to nothing in the fight other than keep Iron Man and Wong busy after Ebony Maw had already singlehandedly removed them from the battlefield, this video does show his weapon in a really good light. The video also has this one shot of Vision's teeth that really bothers me.
...I'm just now thinking that it would've been nice to see Cull and Professor Hulk finally fight in Endgame with Hulk in Hulk form. Cull was about to fight Hulk at the start of Infinity War, but the Maw knew there was no need. Then Banner got lucky in Wakanda that the barrier killed him, but still no Cull vs Hulk.

Actually the true unsung hero of Infinity War? The Cloak of Levitation. It:

  1. Was the most successful at actually keeping the Time Stone away from Ebony Maw
  2. Was the only character in Infinity War who was actually capable of getting the Maw to move outside of his own will
  3. Would've attempted to 1v1 Ebony Maw on the Q ship if Spider-Man and Iron Man hadn't shown up.
  4. Single-cloakdedly kept Thanos from using his the Gauntlet for several moments on Titan
  5. Stopped Tony Stark from leaning on the Cauldron of the Cosmos


In checking character pages, I recently found out Daniel Drumm was one of the masters in Doctor Strange. I wonder if we'll ever see Jericho Drumm.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 7th 2020 at 10:18:38 AM

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#118131: Jun 7th 2020 at 8:14:28 PM

I believe I've called the Guardians my simultaneous favorite and least favorite thing about Infinity War. And, well, I guess that holds true. Sure, there's plenty of mishandling and under-utilization (plus I still loathe Gamora's death and skip it on rewatches), but the good moments raise it up to at least a mixed bag for me. The Knowhere scene still manages to wring out the feels (thanks in large part to Zoe and Chris being at the top of their game here), though it's still pretty jarring that we don't see the process behind Gamora and Peter going from the whole Will They or Won't They? thing they settled on in GOTG 2 to a full-on couple here. Sure, you can say it's their choice and they did three years' worth of giving it time to stew, but I get why this would rub folks the wrong way.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118132: Jun 7th 2020 at 10:01:13 PM

The Soul Stone in general seems like a piss off the fandom thing.

The legend has returned.
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#118133: Jun 7th 2020 at 10:18:33 PM

I'm mostly salty about the Soul Stone because after watching Infinity War, I had a theory that someone in Endgame would earn the Soul Stone by sacrificing themself, as a counterpoint to Thanos sacrificing his daughter.

So I'm sitting there in the theater roughly a year later, and there's Clint and Nat on that same cliff. They make this big show about how neither of them is willing to sacrifice the other, and then Nat flings herself off while Clint is doing his damndest to keep her from jumping, and I start to get excited because there's the setup for my theory. Any second now, Nat will awaken with the Soul Stone in hand, and some voice will tell her "Your friend did not sacrifice what he loved most. You sacrificed your connection to the world that you loved, therefore you have earned this relic."

And... nope. Clint has the soul stone. Nat is dead. Theory dead. My friends are questioning why I was so giddy at her falling to her death. Nothing left for me but hollow shame.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118134: Jun 7th 2020 at 11:32:43 PM

Vormir is pretty much manufactured second act drama. It's an excuse for characters to die without much set-up, or character attention necessary, while still allowing other characters to emote over their deaths. And from a pair at good at genuine drama and character attention as the Russo's, it's a glaringly weak idea.

Meanwhile the soul stone itself doesn't do anything especially unique to warrant that kind of weight in the first place.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 7th 2020 at 11:54:34 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#118135: Jun 8th 2020 at 12:52:11 AM

It's not even being faithful to the comics. The Soul Gem in the comics never had the "you have to sacrifice someone you care about to gain it" rule.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118136: Jun 8th 2020 at 1:16:13 AM

The colors in the movies aren't even the same as in the comicstongue

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118137: Jun 8th 2020 at 1:27:43 AM

In fairness, the MCU really doesn't care about fidelity to the comics all that much.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118138: Jun 8th 2020 at 1:30:40 AM

And I'm not complaining.

I've stopped reading comics for I think about 3 years now. What I prefer about the MCU compared to the comics is the complete aversion of Status Quo Is God and Comic-Book Time.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118139: Jun 8th 2020 at 6:33:03 AM

The soul stone did have a habit of making people evil and nomming random souls so weirdly the one in the movie is less of a dick

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#118140: Jun 8th 2020 at 6:39:24 AM

My personal headcanon is that the Red Skull was lying about the "you have to sacrifice who you love" rule and that any soul would do. He's just a bitter asshole who wanted to see people suffer because he couldn't take the Soul Stone as a ghost.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#118141: Jun 8th 2020 at 6:40:43 AM

Weren't there, like, two people that could use the stone consistently without getting sucked into it and/or turned evil?

In fact, Gamora does get sucked into the stone in the comics. She's one of the very few to have escaped, as well.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#118142: Jun 8th 2020 at 2:53:37 PM

Sorry to butt in on the Avengers conversation, but hopefully I'm not the only one who finds Winter Soldier more and more resonant as time goes on. Especially the way the film touched upon police brutality (in some cases citing racist violence against black people specifically), fascist infiltration and repurposing of state power, institutional corruption, and the need for radical reform.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#118143: Jun 8th 2020 at 2:56:00 PM

Oh every year it gets more relevant.

Dismantle SHIELD all the way to the foundation.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#118144: Jun 8th 2020 at 3:02:42 PM

I'm wondering if I can make a Hindsight entry for that page or if it's shoehorning and already redundant with a lot of entries that already exist for it.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#118145: Jun 8th 2020 at 3:06:19 PM

Put down the Shield and raise the Sword

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#118146: Jun 8th 2020 at 3:13:59 PM

Vormir is aside of making drama is pretty much symbol as plot point about the value of sacrifice and all that jazz, if you are not drawn into it, it feel weak.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118147: Jun 8th 2020 at 5:07:16 PM

The point of CA:WS from the start was that it was to portray real world concerns.

I realized yesterday how the Guardians' portrayal in Infinity War could've gone better: extend the confrontation on Knowhere. Have "Thanos" maybe knock Mantis into Quill, then have Drax and Gamora work together to try to kill "Thanos". They succeed, and then he does the reveal, and blasts Drax away, to have the same conversation with Gamora. Then Quill recovers in time to try to fulfill the promise. It'd make more sense than Thanos just using a non-lethal "Turn to cubes/fettuccine!" power that he never uses again and had no reason to hold back with the first time. The last time we saw him, he directly killed two people (Heimdall and Loki) who were not a physical threat to him anymore and he left with every expectation that he didn't leave survivors.

ChumlyX1995 Since: Jan, 2020
#118148: Jun 8th 2020 at 6:19:32 PM

By that time Thanos has three stones and was so overpowered, he was just trolling people now, he didn’t have to kill them. (Especially since he now had the reality stone).

Any survivors he left would be around to see his grand “kill half universe” plan come to fruition.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#118149: Jun 8th 2020 at 6:49:03 PM

"'Im just now thinking that it would've been nice to see Cull and Professor Hulk finally fight in Endgame with Hulk in Hulk form."

Considering that Cull was stomped by Giant-Man, I would say that the Hulk would have massacred him in less than 5 seconds.

Ebony is the only member worth having.

—-

"Any second now, Nat will awaken with the Soul Stone in hand, and some voice will tell her "Your friend did not sacrifice what he loved most. You sacrificed your connection to the world that you loved, therefore you have earned this relic.""

No offense, but that would have been horrible writing.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#118150: Jun 9th 2020 at 12:42:19 AM

is there any meaningful distinction between EDITH in Far From Home and the SHIELD platforms from Winter Soldier that I'm missing? Or is it really just a case of the writers glossing over the themes of one of their old films?

It just strikes me as odd that having the unilateral power to kill anyone on the planet at any moment is seen as monstrous and immoral, except when Tony makes it. Then it's cool so long as it's used responsibly.

Edited by GNinja on Jun 9th 2020 at 8:21:31 AM

Kaze ni Nare!

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