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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118051: Jun 6th 2020 at 1:29:06 AM

I think the whole 'X-Men are bad at representing social issues' gets a bit overblown at times, honestly.

Sure, it's not a perfect analogy, but it's not supposed to be either, it's just an allegory. It's still set in a world with gods, aliens, magic, flying people, super strong kids, uber advanced science, fictional countries and more.

I think Black Panther has been far more problematic at times.

If this was in reference to what I said earlier, I was talking about the franchise's treatment of people of real world racial minorities not the mutant allegory.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118052: Jun 6th 2020 at 1:41:34 AM

And frankly, Black Panther's comics could be just as bad at portraying real world cultures either. Stan Lee and Marvel as a whole often tried, but could be incredibly tone deaf - and both have leaned too much into stereotypes at times.

Anywho, I have moved on to rewatching Endgame.

Man, we could've been going nuts over Black Widow's awesome moments and inevitable implications about the universe's future. Sigh...

It's somehow both really fun and really tragic that Scott gets kicked around so much, despite being one of the most responsible and earnest heroes in the franchise. But it's also a consistent character trait that he gets no respect, but never complains. It's one of the reasons Cassie is such a great character: he doesn't need the world's respect if he has hers.

Though I wonder what the Ant-Man series' future is going to be (beyond Stature absolutely happening, of course). For the first time, nobody's a fugitive and has to worry about going outside the law. Hell, Scott's probably hailed by the public as one of the greatest heroes in history, which might make the whole "covertly steal things" bit a little difficult.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118053: Jun 6th 2020 at 1:59:02 AM

It was actually really annoying seeing Rhodey and Nebula put Scott down so much without any good reason. Like, he's the only reason they stood a chance. They all had their chance and failed.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118054: Jun 6th 2020 at 2:31:40 AM

Every time I watch Endgame, I'm struck by just how much I wanted Nebula to stay on Earth and continue to be an Avenger - at least for a little while. I love her camaraderie with the team, and how she - like the others - seemed to have found another family with them.

The movie is a bit inconsistent about whether the Un-Snap could affect things that weren't themselves snapped away. A big part of Tony's motivation is to make absolutely sure that they don't change the past in any meaningful way that could risk to get rid of his happy present, but that shouldn't even be possible given the restrictions the movie sets elsewhere (not to mention the weirdness of Cap's trip to the past).

Then again, those restrictions always felt a little like handwave to get ahead of plot holes, which would explain it.

Still patiently waiting for information about whether the Hulk is permanently crippled or not. I'm sure we'll find out in She-Hulk, but still...

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#118055: Jun 6th 2020 at 2:33:44 AM

I think as far as the X-Men goes part of it is that the mutant thing started out as just a reason to have a bunch of people with different powers; saying they were born that way was easier than giving them all different origins. There were a couple early issues that touched on them being hated and feared but it wasn't an overt part of the series DNA until later, and there were just as many issues were they were praised for helping save the world.

(Reading the early stuff is also kinda funny cause of just HOW much Professor X saved the whole team to the point he faked his depowerment/death at least twice in the first 15 or so issues as a test, and Marvel Girl went through one of the fastest nerfs in comics when in issue 1 she was able to lift and throw a missile without issue but in ish 2 felt faint after lifting a couple of girls and noted lifting things too heavy for her would strain her.)

Edited by lalalei2001 on Jun 6th 2020 at 2:37:59 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#118056: Jun 6th 2020 at 5:36:55 AM

[up][up] Well, part of it was that they didn't know precisely how everything worked. Tony was pre-emptively saying "If we find a way to reset the entire universe exactly as it was we're not doing that." As noted, that didn't really look like it was an option in the end, but Tony's concern for his daughter was the explanation for why they didn't look particularly hard for that option.

I did get the impression that it would have been theoretically possible to brute-force fake "time-travel" where the entire universe is physically rewound, but it certainly wasn't stated outright and really wasn't an option.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#118057: Jun 6th 2020 at 6:13:40 AM

If Morgan wasn't part of the story and they had gone with a Reset Button solution, there would be a ton of people pointing out the Fridge Horror that every child born during the five years after the Snap was getting erased from history. For narrative purposes Morgan Stark is the physical manifestation of "why we shouldn't rewind time even if it were possible". But also changing your own past is claimed to be impossible, so we don't need to seriously weigh the pros and cons.

ChumlyX1995 Since: Jan, 2020
#118058: Jun 6th 2020 at 6:15:16 AM

Lasting consequences are better too, than an easy reset.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#118059: Jun 6th 2020 at 6:54:16 AM

Still, they are really unlikely to go on the effects the Snap would have on Earth during those 5 years.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#118060: Jun 6th 2020 at 7:23:28 AM

On one hand, it is super-selfish of Tony to prioritize his five years of happiness over everyone else in the universe.

On the other hand though, it does strike me that undoing the Snap in a way that erased everyone born during those five years would probably be the more "Thanos-y" action, so in that sense, he probably made the right decision.

RE Rhodey towards Scott, IIRC wasn't Scott kind of "responsible" for Rhodey being paralyzed? If so, I can see some lasting resentment being there. Also, from a Doyleist perspective, I'd say that Endgame does have a bit of an issue in knowing when to lay off somewhat mean humor. This is most obvious with "Fat Thor", but that's not the only example.

Speaking of Scott, that's part of why I'd like to see Raz Malhotra in the MCU. I like the dynamic he has with Scott, including the oddity of him being the protegee of Scott's Experienced Protagonist, even though the two are the same age and in terms of personal life, Raz is the smarter/more grounded one.

Edited by Hodor2 on Jun 6th 2020 at 9:29:18 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118061: Jun 6th 2020 at 7:28:55 AM

There’s also no safe way to like poll the entire world about it

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ChumlyX1995 Since: Jan, 2020
#118062: Jun 6th 2020 at 8:55:11 AM

Rhodey became a lot more jokey after he was paralyzed. Makes sense. A lot of people mask that with humor.

Even though Scott got slot of put downs, he came through the save on Hulk, Rhodey and Rocket. That’s what matters.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#118063: Jun 6th 2020 at 9:46:54 AM

The Time Stone can rewind time, so with the full power of the Infinity Gauntlet, doing that on a planetary or even universal scale should be theoretically doable.

MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#118064: Jun 6th 2020 at 10:49:00 AM

If 2014 Thanos' plan to completely destroy and recreate the universe was possible, then "merely" time-reversing the universe by five years would also definitely be viable.

I think the main reason the Avengers locked themselves to just undoing the IW snap was the question of playing god. If they really wanted to undo all the damage Thanos caused, they could've also revived Vision, Loki, Heimdall, all the Wakandans that died against the outriders, all the Asgardians that were killed when the space stone was taken, all the Dwarves of Nivilidir, the entire planet of Xandar, etc. And hey, why stop there? Why not restore all the Asgardians that were killed by Hela, all the Sokovians who were killed in Age of Ultron, everybody who died in the battle of New York, and so on? It raises huge ethical questions about who deserves to live and who deserves to remain dead. By locking it down only reviving people who were snapped away, that at least limits the scope of their act of god using a a single, objective, yes-or-no criterion, which somewhat mitigates the ethical ramifications of bringing anybody back to life at all.

Edited by MileRun on Jun 6th 2020 at 1:52:58 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#118065: Jun 6th 2020 at 10:56:13 AM

I thought they were only able to revive those who were snapped because it was the glove that did it?

Where did we get the impression they could have revived everyone?

One Strip! One Strip!
MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#118066: Jun 6th 2020 at 11:00:25 AM

I don't remember how explicitly this was stated in the MCU, but at least in the comics, an Infinity Gauntlet with all the gems in place was basically a universal control that could do anything at all within the bounds of that universe. In the MCU, 2014 Thanos threatened to destroy the entire universe and start a new one that's inclined to abide by his philosophies, which I believe we're supposed to take as a thing that can really happen.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#118067: Jun 6th 2020 at 11:03:41 AM

After he killed half the universe, better not take risks.

Wake me up at your own risk.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118068: Jun 6th 2020 at 1:44:52 PM

@Hodor: Scott had nothing to do with Rhodey being paralyzed. That was a completely separate part of the airport battle. The only two people responsible for Rhodey's paralysis were Vision (being careless with his laser and shooting from a bad angle), and Rhodey himself (for a frankly stupid battle strategy, especially from the one guy with a suit capable of shooting backwards and an on-board targeting system, he could've just used his sonic canon on Falcon to disorient him instead of the idiotic idea of shooting his "jetpack" and assuming he'd glide down).

Undoing the Snap still brings some unintended consequences of the Snap, including cases we specifically see, and some that were only implied. During the Nick Fury scene, we see a helicopter and several cars crash presumably because their pilots and drivers got dusted. Anyone killed by those wasn't killed as a result of the Snap itself, and wouldn't return. Also anyone on life support or otherwise dependent on others whose support got snapped.

One thing that bugs me: the MCU, starting with the Guardians and including Thanos' plan, has used the words "galaxy" and "universe" almost interchangeably.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 6th 2020 at 3:47:38 AM

MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#118069: Jun 6th 2020 at 1:58:35 PM

Also, I don't know how well the unsnapping worked for people who were disintegrated in spots that weren't stable ground later. Take that helicopter pilot for example - would he have respawned several stories into the air and immediately fallen to his death?

I feel pretty bad if anybody happened to get snapped while they were inside the Avengers facility, like custodial or maintenance staff. They would've respawned for like a second during Hulk's snap and then immediately gotten blasted to smithereens by 2014 Thanos' barrage.

Edited by MileRun on Jun 6th 2020 at 2:00:27 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#118070: Jun 6th 2020 at 2:01:36 PM

I recall The Daily Bugle viral marketing site created after Far From Home had a guy claim he was paralyzed from un-snapping five years after a stunt jump, but it was quickly retconned to say he was lying and Hulk's Snap reformed everyone in a safe place.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118071: Jun 6th 2020 at 2:09:47 PM

Word of one of the gods is that Hulk made sure everyone unsnapped on safe ground

[up] Yeah

Edited by Bocaj on Jun 6th 2020 at 5:10:16 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#118072: Jun 6th 2020 at 2:13:06 PM

I'm more curious about all the auxiliary deaths that happened as an immediate consequence of the snap.

Seeing as it was suggested the Gauntlet can't actually resurrect truly dead people, just bring back the snapped, it sucks for anyone who was in an airplane/car/surgery when their pilot/driver/surgeon disappeared.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118073: Jun 6th 2020 at 2:13:23 PM

Well I sure as hell hope no one was on a spaceship that got blown up, or a planet that died in the 5 years...

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#118074: Jun 6th 2020 at 2:27:05 PM

One thing that bugs me: the MCU, starting with the Guardians and including Thanos' plan, has used the words "galaxy" and "universe" almost interchangeably.

It's about to get weirder with Dr. Strange's movie, which is using "multiverse" (and probably other things like "realms" and "realities") synonymously with "dimensions."

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 6th 2020 at 2:28:08 AM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118075: Jun 6th 2020 at 2:34:46 PM

Galaxy: a system of millions or billions of stars, together with gas and dust, held together by gravitational attraction.

Universe: all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos.

Multiverse: an infinite realm of being or potential being of which the universe is regarded as a part or instance.

Dimension: a measurable extent of some kind.

The legend has returned.

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