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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#118001: Jun 4th 2020 at 11:18:31 PM

Definitely seems like something X-Men should cover if hasn't happened by that point. Giving the spotlight to the marginalized and underrepresented is one of the best uses of that brand.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118002: Jun 4th 2020 at 11:22:58 PM

For a franchise built on exploring racism, the X-Men have a rather poor track record when it comes to characters from marginalized groups. The whitewashing of the aforementioned Bobby da Costa, the cartoonish depiction of people with mental illness (though this isn't exclusive to the X-Men comics), the frequency with which poc are killed off or put in limbo, Bishop's Face–Heel Turn, the stereotypical depiction of Kenyans in Storm's origin and the Betsy/Kwannon debacle that took three decades in real time to undo.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#118003: Jun 5th 2020 at 12:09:04 AM

Wait, why does Kraven's wiki page list him as having "Ultra Instinct"? Is that a thing outside of Dragon Ball?

What, moving your body automatically on instinct without thinking about it? That's a thing that's possible in Real Life.

As for Marvel POC I want to see in the movies, I've always wanted Silverclaw to get her own film.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118004: Jun 5th 2020 at 6:44:20 AM

Is X-23 a Latina as well, or is that just the version of her from Logan?

The legend has returned.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#118005: Jun 5th 2020 at 7:33:20 AM

[up][up]I mean specifically naming it "Ultra Instinct".

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#118006: Jun 5th 2020 at 7:40:21 AM

Just that version IIRC.

My issues with certain characters aside, Latinos really do get the short end of the stick when it comes to actual heroes. Even Freedom Force, a Jack Kirby parody of the Silver Age, had a Latino hero as one of the main characters.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118007: Jun 5th 2020 at 7:53:04 AM

X-23 was Ambiguously Brown in X-Men Evolution (which is were she debuted). To her page on this site her features were based on those of the girl who modeled for the reference shoot as a thank you. You could portray her as latino and/or First Nations. It's weird watching the show and then coming to the comics where she is depicted as a pale-skinned brunette.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#118008: Jun 5th 2020 at 8:20:06 AM

Isn't Slingshot/Yo-yo latino? Or is that only in AoS?

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
ChumlyX1995 Since: Jan, 2020
#118009: Jun 5th 2020 at 8:23:56 AM

In the comics, she’s half Puerto Rican. On the live action show, as you see, she’s Colombian.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118010: Jun 5th 2020 at 8:26:30 AM

It wouldn't make sense to make the genetic clone of canadian Wolverine hispanic.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
ChumlyX1995 Since: Jan, 2020
#118011: Jun 5th 2020 at 8:29:47 AM

Depends on the race of Sarah Kinney

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#118012: Jun 5th 2020 at 8:30:41 AM

So, she is like the Kon-El Superboy in that respect?

Wake me up at your own risk.
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#118013: Jun 5th 2020 at 8:31:54 AM

I may be wrong but wasn't she conceived normally but then injected with Wolverine DNA?

The legend has returned.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#118014: Jun 5th 2020 at 8:36:33 AM

[up]In the film. She’s a straight up clone in the comics.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#118015: Jun 5th 2020 at 8:40:09 AM

Last I heard, the comics had retconned it so that she was born from a mother using Logan's DNA. That or it was always the case, I forget which one.

ChumlyX1995 Since: Jan, 2020
#118016: Jun 5th 2020 at 8:42:00 AM

Yeah, its retcon so that Sarah Kinney didn’t just carry her and but contributed to her DNA.

So she really is her mother.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118017: Jun 5th 2020 at 9:08:56 AM

Yes

It was a weird thing but I guess people can’t be non biological family in the x men books, a series that dips into found family a lot

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#118019: Jun 5th 2020 at 10:55:10 AM

Even so, Sarah Kinney wasn't exactly dark skinned herself, so Laura being pale isn't really a problem in my eyes.

I think the whole 'X-Men are bad at representing social issues' gets a bit overblown at times, honestly.

Sure, it's not a perfect analogy, but it's not supposed to be either, it's just an allegory. It's still set in a world with gods, aliens, magic, flying people, super strong kids, uber advanced science, fictional countries and more.

I think Black Panther has been far more problematic at times.

Edited by Forenperser on Jun 5th 2020 at 7:56:19 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#118020: Jun 5th 2020 at 1:23:49 PM

If I were retconning things, I'd probably have it that similar to Jessica Alba's character in Dark Angel, she was a combination of various races as part of engineering a Super-Soldier. Which yeah, I know has its own Unfortunate Implications. But it would be a good way of explaining any difference in appearance from Logan / a reason to cast a non-white actress.

Edited by Hodor2 on Jun 5th 2020 at 3:23:58 AM

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#118021: Jun 5th 2020 at 2:16:44 PM

Just say they got a damaged DNA sample and had to improvise, or something.

Or that mutant DNA is tricky, and had to splice it with Sarah Kinney's to get something working.

Edited by Blueace on Jun 5th 2020 at 5:18:18 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#118022: Jun 5th 2020 at 2:29:52 PM

"We used frog DNA. For some reason that got us a really hairy T. Rex so the scientist in charge used her own DNA instead."

[up] Although damaged DNA was the handwave for why X-23 was a female clone. The DNA sample had a fucked up Y chromosome. So might as well lean further into it.

Edited by Bocaj on Jun 5th 2020 at 5:30:46 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#118023: Jun 5th 2020 at 4:10:09 PM

I think the X-Men movies have done a poor job of representing social issues because (among other things) there’s something rather tone-deaf and grating about writing the X-Men as a metaphor for minority groups and then repeatedly having the lead characters be overwhelmingly white. Yes, there’s Storm, but in the first place she’s only one character and in the second place she never got very much character development in any of the movies, compared to Xavier, Magneto, Wolverine, Mystique, and Jean. Even The Gifted TV show was centred on a middle-class white family.

I didn’t really pick up on it as an issue for a long time, but I’ve seen quite a few people online frustrated by it and I can see why.

If Marvel does something with the X-Men they should focus on different characters and have a team with more black, Hispanic, and Asian characters in leading roles.

Edited by Galadriel on Jun 5th 2020 at 7:15:17 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#118024: Jun 5th 2020 at 4:11:37 PM

Storm has pretty much been a side-character across the entire film franchise.

I don't think she's ever not been tertiary or secondary.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#118025: Jun 5th 2020 at 4:15:13 PM

Just be glad they didn't try to kill her off,they did kill other main Xmen off and she was lucky in the regard

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