TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117826: May 31st 2020 at 5:05:22 PM

It’s a damn good day when a rapist dies.

Edited by slimcoder on May 31st 2020 at 5:05:26 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#117827: May 31st 2020 at 5:10:41 PM

On the other hand, is probably she survived, if anything because I want her going down on screen, not as "we forgot" kind of stuff.

Also because as bad Grand ward was, he didnt deserve that.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#117828: May 31st 2020 at 5:45:21 PM

On the other hand, he was a literal Nazi. I'm not feeling much sympathy for either of them.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#117829: May 31st 2020 at 6:14:38 PM

I feel some sympathy for ward because he was train to be a perfect HYDRA agent by garret, and even them, being mind controled and rape is not something I want to a villian, not matter how ville.

specially because none of is team saw the problem with that and none of them new ward was bad at the moment.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117830: May 31st 2020 at 7:02:26 PM

[up][up][tup]

There's a lot of actually good people who deserve a lot better than what they've faced in life. I'm not losing a second of sleep over bad things happening to bad people unless they actually repent and seek forgiveness.


So I just saw this alternative take on Hela's arrival. It's a nice bit of acting from Anthony Hopkins, but the overall scene is a lot less subtle.

...except for the above angle shot of Hela and Odin walking towards each other. It could be interpreted as Hela walking away from the light, her justified anger at being abandoned, and towards darkness. Meanwhile Odin is moving away from darkness, his really shady past, and towards the light of atonement.
Whoops, forgot to properly format the spoiler tag.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on May 31st 2020 at 10:13:59 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#117831: May 31st 2020 at 7:07:13 PM

I remember hearing during Taika's Q&A on Instagram a month ago that the reason the scene was changed was because test audiences felt it was undignified for Odin to die homeless in an alley.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#117832: May 31st 2020 at 8:57:45 PM

[up]he was a warmonger who got away for hundred of years, dying peacefully is.....meeeeeh

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117833: May 31st 2020 at 9:06:28 PM

But he hasn’t really been that for a shit ton of time.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#117834: May 31st 2020 at 10:09:33 PM

I mean, to some that might not matter. He still did it.

At most, you can say he wanted Thor and Loki to be better than him.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#117835: May 31st 2020 at 10:20:39 PM

And he drifted right back into it after Frigga was killed. And even if he wanted his sons to be better than he was, he didn't do anything to check Thor's behavior until Thor literally committed an act of war (hours after Thor was supposed to be coronated king of Asgard). And he never relinquished control of the realms he conquered. All onscreen evidence points towards Odin going from active to passive oppressor and not actually feeling strong remorse and a desire to make up for his past.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#117836: May 31st 2020 at 11:00:49 PM

And he never relinquished control of the realms he conquered.

Yeah, that part's going to be a sticking point.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#117837: Jun 1st 2020 at 12:08:28 AM

As Hela put it: "proud of having it, ashamed of how he got it."

MileRun Since: Jan, 2001
#117838: Jun 1st 2020 at 12:17:21 AM

Just in general, I feel like Ragnarok's social commentary is pretty underappreciated - partly because the movie is predominantly a comedy, and partly because Black Panther handled the same subject masterfully just a few months later - but Ragnarok had a lot to say about the imperialism, bleaching history, and what it means to be a leader for your people.

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#117839: Jun 1st 2020 at 12:32:34 AM

I think it's overstated. I'm always hearing about how bold it was to show Asgard as an imperialist power and ending with Asgard destroyed, but I think it really did not handle its commentary well. There's all the issues with how Odin didn't really do much to atone but was still held up as a spirit guide for Thor in his hour of need, but Thor doesn't reflect on his own role in upholding the Asgardian Empire, and his act of further oppressing peoples that were unfairly subjugated was framed as his opening act heroics. The movie never featured the viewpoints of Asgard's victims, because none of them appear as anything but villains. Loki's backstory as a child of a subjugated race stolen by his oppressors and raised in ignorance to think of his own people as monsters not only isn't explored, it's mocked.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#117840: Jun 1st 2020 at 12:55:21 AM

It's not just that, but the ideas surrounding colonialism are mostly just lip service and doesn't really explore what all that means. It doesn't offer a solution or method of retribution, at least not one that makes sense. It would be like saying that to atone for their imperialism the UK needs to be nuked and survivors scattered.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#117841: Jun 1st 2020 at 1:03:32 AM

Asgard's destruction is a symbolic image, not a literal one, and I think most audiences understood it that way. The Thor movies have frequently had inflated metaphorical stakes for topics, such as Loki and Odin's family drama with planet-wide consequences. Compare how Frozen 2, with a very similar plot, went out of its way to protect the wealth and buildings when they seemingly had to be destroyed (unlike earlier drafts), and numerous viewers balked because it felt like not committing to its own message. The analogy has as much stake as the concrete.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 1st 2020 at 1:08:09 AM

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#117842: Jun 1st 2020 at 1:12:41 AM

The problem I have with Asgard's destruction is that it wasn't necessary and didn't help its victims at all and likely permanently robbed them of their stolen treasures. Loki's hands-off isolationist ruling style when pretending to be Odin most likely meant that any realm that wanted independence from Asgard could have it, so Asgard's destruction at the end doesn't give them anything they didn't have at the beginning. But as the movie explicitly shows that Odin's vault of stolen artifacts is still full and there's nothing to indicate that Loki retrieved anything but the Tesseract before going to jump start Ragnarok, we can only assume they were all destroyed, along with all the other plundered riches that still adorned Asgard when Hela took over.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117843: Jun 1st 2020 at 1:29:50 AM

Heheheh Goddamn hilarious how Odin's death was changed due to audience feedback. [lol]

Guess the guy is pretty well liked if enough people want a peaceful death for him.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 1st 2020 at 1:32:06 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#117844: Jun 1st 2020 at 1:36:18 AM

Maybe it wasn't so much Odin as the actor playing him. I guess audiences just didn't want to see Anthony Hopkins act out an undignified death.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117845: Jun 1st 2020 at 1:48:54 AM

You can also add in mythology fans. Like its Odin, the Allfather, the Top God of the Norse Pantheon. When he shows up in any movie, show, game, or book, you immediately go "Fuck yeah Odin's here."

Which now that I think about it, makes sense. The Thor movies don't exactly use the Norse pantheon well. There's like what 5 Gods? Thor, Loki, Odin, Frigga, & Heimdall....... oh right & Hela. Like fuck I'm not a Norse buff but I know there's more. Where the fuck is Baldur?

Might as well treat the very few Gods you actually bothered using well.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 1st 2020 at 1:50:58 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#117846: Jun 1st 2020 at 1:52:25 AM

The Gods, maybe. Not the Goddesses, though. Frigga gets fridged for her family's manpain, Sif gets completely forgotten. Oh, and Hela gets hit hard by Everyone Hates Hades and her family relationships completely changed to the point where her mythological father has the least involvement with her.

Edited by Ayasugi on Jun 1st 2020 at 4:56:35 AM

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#117847: Jun 1st 2020 at 2:06:41 AM

I hope Sif returns in the next Thor movie, personally. IMO she's a better love interest for Thor than Jane Foster or Valkryie.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#117848: Jun 1st 2020 at 9:37:40 AM

There is a lot to criticize about the character, but Ward wasn't a 'literal Nazi'. None of modern Day Hydra (and original Hydra as well, for that matter) were, in fact. They were Equal-Opportunity Evil / Hates Everyone Equally Fascists, but not that.

I think we shouldn't be just throwing terms like that around, it devalues them.

And yeah, Lorelei is a pretty blatant rapist. The fact that they didn't portray it like that makes 'Yes Men' still one of the most controversial episodes of the series.

Edited by Forenperser on Jun 1st 2020 at 6:37:54 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#117849: Jun 1st 2020 at 9:38:06 AM

How much did Asgard really rule over the Nine Realms? Earth is one of those realms, and until Thor showed up to stop an alien invasion, most people didn't even know Asgard existed.


Total posts: 186,763
Top