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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I feel some sympathy for ward because he was train to be a perfect HYDRA agent by garret, and even them, being mind controled and rape is not something I want to a villian, not matter how ville.
specially because none of is team saw the problem with that and none of them new ward was bad at the moment.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"![]()
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There's a lot of actually good people who deserve a lot better than what they've faced in life. I'm not losing a second of sleep over bad things happening to bad people unless they actually repent and seek forgiveness.
So I just saw this alternative take on Hela's arrival. It's a nice bit of acting from Anthony Hopkins, but the overall scene is a lot less subtle.
...except for the above angle shot of Hela and Odin walking towards each other. It could be interpreted as Hela walking away from the light, her justified anger at being abandoned, and towards darkness. Meanwhile Odin is moving away from darkness, his really shady past, and towards the light of atonement.
Whoops, forgot to properly format the spoiler tag.
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on May 31st 2020 at 10:13:59 AM
I mean, to some that might not matter. He still did it.
At most, you can say he wanted Thor and Loki to be better than him.
One Strip! One Strip!And he drifted right back into it after Frigga was killed. And even if he wanted his sons to be better than he was, he didn't do anything to check Thor's behavior until Thor literally committed an act of war (hours after Thor was supposed to be coronated king of Asgard). And he never relinquished control of the realms he conquered. All onscreen evidence points towards Odin going from active to passive oppressor and not actually feeling strong remorse and a desire to make up for his past.
Just in general, I feel like Ragnarok's social commentary is pretty underappreciated - partly because the movie is predominantly a comedy, and partly because Black Panther handled the same subject masterfully just a few months later - but Ragnarok had a lot to say about the imperialism, bleaching history, and what it means to be a leader for your people.
I think it's overstated. I'm always hearing about how bold it was to show Asgard as an imperialist power and ending with Asgard destroyed, but I think it really did not handle its commentary well. There's all the issues with how Odin didn't really do much to atone but was still held up as a spirit guide for Thor in his hour of need, but Thor doesn't reflect on his own role in upholding the Asgardian Empire, and his act of further oppressing peoples that were unfairly subjugated was framed as his opening act heroics. The movie never featured the viewpoints of Asgard's victims, because none of them appear as anything but villains. Loki's backstory as a child of a subjugated race stolen by his oppressors and raised in ignorance to think of his own people as monsters not only isn't explored, it's mocked.
It's not just that, but the ideas surrounding colonialism are mostly just lip service and doesn't really explore what all that means. It doesn't offer a solution or method of retribution, at least not one that makes sense. It would be like saying that to atone for their imperialism the UK needs to be nuked and survivors scattered.
Asgard's destruction is a symbolic image, not a literal one, and I think most audiences understood it that way. The Thor movies have frequently had inflated metaphorical stakes for topics, such as Loki and Odin's family drama with planet-wide consequences. Compare how Frozen 2, with a very similar plot, went out of its way to protect the wealth and buildings when they seemingly had to be destroyed (unlike earlier drafts), and numerous viewers balked because it felt like not committing to its own message. The analogy has as much stake as the concrete.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 1st 2020 at 1:08:09 AM
The problem I have with Asgard's destruction is that it wasn't necessary and didn't help its victims at all and likely permanently robbed them of their stolen treasures. Loki's hands-off isolationist ruling style when pretending to be Odin most likely meant that any realm that wanted independence from Asgard could have it, so Asgard's destruction at the end doesn't give them anything they didn't have at the beginning. But as the movie explicitly shows that Odin's vault of stolen artifacts is still full and there's nothing to indicate that Loki retrieved anything but the Tesseract before going to jump start Ragnarok, we can only assume they were all destroyed, along with all the other plundered riches that still adorned Asgard when Hela took over.
You can also add in mythology fans. Like its Odin, the Allfather, the Top God of the Norse Pantheon. When he shows up in any movie, show, game, or book, you immediately go "Fuck yeah Odin's here."
Which now that I think about it, makes sense. The Thor movies don't exactly use the Norse pantheon well. There's like what 5 Gods? Thor, Loki, Odin, Frigga, & Heimdall....... oh right & Hela. Like fuck I'm not a Norse buff but I know there's more. Where the fuck is Baldur?
Might as well treat the very few Gods you actually bothered using well.
Edited by slimcoder on Jun 1st 2020 at 1:50:58 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."The Gods, maybe. Not the Goddesses, though. Frigga gets fridged for her family's manpain, Sif gets completely forgotten. Oh, and Hela gets hit hard by Everyone Hates Hades and her family relationships completely changed to the point where her mythological father has the least involvement with her.
Edited by Ayasugi on Jun 1st 2020 at 4:56:35 AM
There is a lot to criticize about the character, but Ward wasn't a 'literal Nazi'. None of modern Day Hydra (and original Hydra as well, for that matter) were, in fact. They were Equal-Opportunity Evil / Hates Everyone Equally Fascists, but not that.
I think we shouldn't be just throwing terms like that around, it devalues them.
And yeah, Lorelei is a pretty blatant rapist. The fact that they didn't portray it like that makes 'Yes Men' still one of the most controversial episodes of the series.
Edited by Forenperser on Jun 1st 2020 at 6:37:54 PM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian

It’s a damn good day when a rapist dies.
Edited by slimcoder on May 31st 2020 at 5:05:26 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."