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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#117726: May 27th 2020 at 11:48:39 PM

[up][up][up][up]In a flashback in The Avengers, the scientists observing Steve's frozen body are shocked that he's alive.

The Super Serum being the reason he survived being frozen and thawed is from the comics too. In Marvel comics, most human popsicles are usually justified with either comicbook superscience and/or the subjects being enhanced in some way.

Edited by M84 on May 28th 2020 at 2:50:50 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#117727: May 28th 2020 at 1:18:55 AM

Which makes sense because cryostasis is a completely fictional concept. Last I heard, scientists were closer to figuring out a practical method of moving ships FTL than they were to figuring out a safe, long-term method of human cryostasis.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117728: May 28th 2020 at 1:21:23 AM

Wait their already trying to figure out FTL travel?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#117729: May 28th 2020 at 1:25:27 AM

Yeah, as far as I understand it, the current theory is that if you use a particle accelerator to create a miniature black hole in space in front of the ship, it creates a bubble of space around the ship which you can move through space faster than light. Since the ship isn't moving, it's just moving a bubble of space through space, no matter involved.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 28th 2020 at 1:27:22 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117730: May 28th 2020 at 1:28:33 AM

Wait so they are trying to create black holes?

Damn, I hope that works better than it does in fiction.

Also that does sound like something out of a sci-fi.

Edited by slimcoder on May 28th 2020 at 1:32:25 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#117731: May 28th 2020 at 2:23:12 AM

If I'm correct, this is the Alcubierre drive, which is the Defictionalized (at least in theory) version of the warp drive. So, yeah, something out of sci-fi sounds just right.

Edited by C105 on May 28th 2020 at 11:23:52 AM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#117732: May 28th 2020 at 3:16:38 AM

We've already created black holes in particle accelerators, but they're so tiny and dissipate so fast they pose no threat. As for FTL in real life stuff, that is all still just in theory. Even getting to a significant percent of the speed of light would be a huge achievement for now. Honestly, I'd say cryostasis is more plausible.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#117733: May 28th 2020 at 4:04:29 AM

It is more plausible; lowering body temperature to make surgery viable is already a thing; basically, we need to find a way to basically "pause" a body in a revertible way; without ice crystals breaking cells down.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#117734: May 28th 2020 at 4:24:36 AM

The ice crystal thing reminds me of the Legacy of Heorot duology by Larry Niven. In that story cryostasis technology is a thing. It's been tested and confirmed to be safe.

...Except it wasn't tested for the lengths of the voyages in space for which it would be used. The voyage is long enough that ice crystals start forming in the colonists' brains. The colonists who survive the journey — originally humanity's best and brightest — all have brain damage to varying degrees. Which would be bad enough even if the planet they landed on wasn't home to particularly dangerous predators...

Disgusted, but not surprised
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117735: May 29th 2020 at 7:49:25 PM

Three notes I had on Black Panther:

  1. "It is hard for a good man to be king."
    • Both major kings in the MCU, T'Chaka and Odin, are far less good men than we would expect, and their firstborn sons (and only trueborn sons) see them fall from grace. Those sons do better, but still face challenges. Both kings also share near identical final conversations with their heirs, guiltily admitting their own folly, and encouraging their sons to be better than them and to believe in their own strength. Their forgotten "sons" (nephew N'Dajaka and stepson Loki) lash out at the perceived unfair treatment from the king's follies, and are both pretty justified in it - a good man wouldn't leave a child effectively orphaned from their culture for most of their developing years, but both kings did it, out of oversight or secure their visions for their domain.
    • In one sentence, T'Chaka has summarized his reign, relationships, and faults, and encouraged his son to be better than him, knowing it's possible. However Odin, much harsher in life, never gave that sentiment even after having far more time to do so, thus his failures (Hela, and putting 2 of the Infinity Stones accessible on Earth) are far greater.
  2. Killmonger's line about the sun never setting on the Wakandan Empire is the clearest sign of the hypocritical bent to his plan, to colonize the rest of the world.The statement's most recent historic use being "The sun never sets on the British Empire". Due to the inhumane colonization of Africa by European empires, many of the countries that inspired Wakanda were parts of the non-contiguous British occupied territories: South Africa, where the spoken language came from, Nigeria, where the written language came from, the Congo/Ugandan border, where Wakanda is placed, and all of the above, which inspired the culture.
  3. Throughout the entire film, Killmonger had been implicitly sexist and overtly abusive to women, including killing two. However it is the women of Wakanda who are the people who actually set (birth and nurture) its future, where his plan fails. Queen Ramonda as the stable support for the royal family, Shuri as the source of its technology and development, Okoye and the Dora Milaje as the guardians of its strength, and Nakia as the one whose experiences set the tone for Wakanda's outreach to the world (the final plan wasn't a compromise, it was Nakia's plan from the start).

ChumlyX1995 Since: Jan, 2020
#117736: May 29th 2020 at 7:58:49 PM

[up] Good analysis. It also makes me wonder why and who will be the antagonist in Black Panther 2.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117737: May 29th 2020 at 9:11:26 PM

Not saying he should be the antag for the immediate sequel but man it be dope to see T’Challa going at it against Namor.

King vs King.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#117738: May 29th 2020 at 9:24:24 PM

Namor can slap the Hulk around on a good day.

I know T'challa is good, but is that someone he can take?

....wait. There was that whole debacle over Namor destroying Wakanda while on of the Phoenix Five, which T'challa got revenge over hardcore.

So shows what I know?

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#117739: May 29th 2020 at 9:25:01 PM

It also makes me wonder why and who will be the antagonist in Black Panther 2.

It's almost certainly going to be Achebe.

I know T'challa is good, but is that someone he can take?

Not that I want the villain to be Namor, but...

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 29th 2020 at 9:26:44 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#117740: May 29th 2020 at 9:25:56 PM

T'Challa vs Namor is like King Batman of a country vs asshole aquatic superman in terms of power gulf

So, yes, if the writer says so.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117741: May 29th 2020 at 9:28:05 PM

Possible plots:

  • My preference would be for somewhere in the MCU to set up Adam Brashear and America Chavez, so we can go into Ultimates. I guess Namor is one way to go, since he's underwater, and Adam lives in a pineapple under the sea a superlab in the Marianas Trench.
  • If that earthquake was actually important, it could have been either Namor, or Moses Magnum, or both.
  • A big question that needs to be answered in a sequel is what happens in the fallout of Killmonger's burning of the Heart Shaped Herbs.
  • Possibly related to the above, they could lean into the spiritual side of the setting, especially as we've also got Eternals coming before it. If they do that, then we may see Achebe, and some possible representation of Bast and Mephisto.

[up][up]Nuff said.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on May 29th 2020 at 11:32:24 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#117742: May 29th 2020 at 9:29:48 PM

They could lean into the spiritual side of the setting, especially as we've also got Eternals coming before it. If they do that, then we may see Achebe, and some possible representation of Bast and Mephisto.

As I understand him, Achebe's more of a social villain than a supernatural one, upsetting the political and social frame of Wakanda from the inside out by attacking their weak points. He worships Mephisto, but he's not - say - Baron Mordo or anything.

He's also the biggest villain T'Challa has who wasn't already used in some way in the first one, iirc.

If that earthquake was actually important, it could have been either Namor, or Moses Magnum, or both.

I would love Moses Magnum, especially if they reimagined him as a Wakandan.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 29th 2020 at 9:32:54 AM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117743: May 29th 2020 at 9:36:15 PM

I haven't read any Achebe stories (despite his name coming from my culture...), but I figure if they combine a couple different plots, it could be something like... T'Challa and/or Shuri have to go on a mystical quest to request more of the Heart Shaped Herb from Bast, but in order to do that, Bast warns them that there must be some (socially) counterbalancing force. Achebe, possibly someone working at one of the outreach centers (Wakandan or not), gets empowered (possibly by Mephisto or someone else in the Wakandan pantheon) as a result, and uses his power, and the social upheaval of Wakanda opening and the Snap/Blip, to sow some political unrest. This plot wouldn't lend itself to any big flashy physical confrontation, but the story could result in something like a Cap film or a Batman film.

But also, trust in Coogler, he'll figure out something good.

On another possibly related note, the MCU could potentially have Mephisto fill in some power vacuum in Helheim, now that Hela's dead.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on May 29th 2020 at 11:39:56 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#117744: May 29th 2020 at 10:06:23 PM

I've always thought the ideal villain duo for Black Panther 2 would be Achebe and "The People", the Wakandan democracy movement from A Nation Under Our Feet. This would allow the film to keep the nuance of the first (where the point is Killmonger is correct in principle, but not in methodology) while tackling a different side of the issue (democracy and class rather than isolationism and race).

The obvious arc here being that The People are actually correct in wanting to democratize Wakanda and take away T'challa's absolute authority, but Achebe is the leech in their revolution who's just trying to use it to create chaos (representing how foreign powers and tinpot dictators co-opt democratic systems for their own realpolitik, this is even better if the play up the fact Achebe is backed by the CIA), T'challa and the People come to a understanding of a much more democratic constitutional monarchy (or, hell, full Republic if they want to go even farther than the comic).

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117745: May 29th 2020 at 10:09:51 PM

That sounds pretty good.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#117746: May 29th 2020 at 10:20:27 PM

I think it'd be neat if the villains in a Black Panther sequel were partly motivated by what happened during Infinity War. T'Challa opened up the borders to Wakanda, and that led to an alien invasion that ended with the Snap. Maybe an insurrection group outraged about over the people who died during the attack and weren't brought by the Gauntlet?

I think that shouldn't be the sole motivation, but it could be a major driving factor and would help explore the fallout of the post-Snap era.

Edited by chasemaddigan on May 29th 2020 at 1:21:41 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117747: May 29th 2020 at 11:49:21 PM

Heh this is funny timing.

I’m watching a Boondocks marathon which includes the rarely seen BET or Black Evil Television as the episodes refer to it as, & my gut broke seeing the character Wedgie Hudlin who is an obvious caricature of Reginald Hudlin, who actually wrote his own Black Panther run.

Guy even shills the BP comic he wrote to his employees during their regularly scheduled Monday meetings on Thursday. [lol]

Edited by slimcoder on May 29th 2020 at 11:50:01 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#117748: May 30th 2020 at 12:18:45 AM

[up][up] That's probably going to factor into it, yeah. T'Challa and Shuri were gone for five years, and now the expectation is for them to just hop back in and take over again. Wakanda was ravaged along with the rest of the world, and who knows how its social climate has changed as a result.

M'Baku survived, also, but how has seeing his people killed off in front of him affected him? Does he have faith in T'Challa any more? Winston Duke has said he'd be interested in playing a more villainous M'Baku (though tbh I prefer the set up of them as Bash Brothers), etc.

I figure whoever the next villain is, it's going to be someone using all that chaos and unrest to their advantage.

I had the cool idea that Moses Magnum could be a Lex Luthor-esque Wakandan genius, who used the opportunity to set up a super-weapons trafficking ring selling Wakandan tech to the highest bidder - essentially the result of the rulership losing its staunchest leaders and so much being devoted to global strength, that corruption grew stronger and stronger until now T'Challa's greatest fear - Wakandan weapons out there causing harm - have come to pass, but even worse than Killmonger as it's just anyone evil and rich enough to afford them. You could then do like a Bond-esque internal spy adventure as they try to root out who is behind the ring and how to stop them.

If you want to do a connection to someone like Namor and Doom or the Maggia, you could even have them as his buyers.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 30th 2020 at 12:24:38 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117749: May 30th 2020 at 1:05:28 AM

There really shouldn't be a reason for M'Baku to be mad.

We saw him on T'Challa's council at the end (in was so subtle I missed it until a recent New Rockstars youtube video pointed it out), so presumably he was at least made aware of the decision, if not provided input. Then he willingly brought his people to aid in the final fight, knowing he was helping his own people's defense too. Then when people were brought back, not only did he bring his people to the fight again, he was damn near at the front of the pack, right next to Cap and Black Panther, almost outpacing them.

Opening the border may have been risky, but everything after that, T'Challa and M'Baku both did in defense of their tribe, all of Wakanda, the planet, and the universe they live in.

I doubt anyone would blame T'Challa or Shuri for being snapped, given it was random and they knew that.

Unless a challenge was issued, the throne would revert to Queen Ramonda. No one on the council or in their tribes was opposed to the Panther Tribe leading except for maybe M'Baku, and T'Challa already addressed most of his gripes. And we already saw him turn down the last herb even when Shuri was alive, as he values honor. As such he probably wouldn't challenge a queen who just lost both her children, for the head seat of a council, under a universal crisis, when there isn't even an Herb left to distinguish himself. Most same tribe leaders would be content to cooperate to at least get through the crisis stage.

At most, he or someone else would earn the throne once things have settled, setting the policy for some of those years. But once T'Challa returns, he can even repeat his line "As you can see, I am not dead!", invalidating any challenge that has occurred or retaining the right to fight for it back.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117750: May 30th 2020 at 1:06:40 AM

Or it's co.ics and they could just say "fuck it, we need a conflict."

This is one of the many reasons why Thanos' plan makes no sense and would lead to universal chaos.


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