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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#117601: May 19th 2020 at 7:59:51 AM

Ultron isn't Tony's fault alone.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117602: May 19th 2020 at 8:02:58 AM

I'm fine with so many villains being created by Tony having some connection to Tony and/or Stark Industries. Wealthy and powerful people make big waves with everything they say and do. Captain America hasn't created a supervillain because Steve Rogers doesn't have a geopolitical footprint.

Honestly, it's kind of a shame that the Iron Man trilogy came before Marvel really came into their own with the messages and conversations their films hold. Most Iron Man films were pretty by-the-book Hero Fights Bad Guy movies with shades here and there of personal struggles for Tony.

I'd have loved to see the Iron Man films talk more about that geopolitical footprint. Emphasizing power and responsibility as it applies to the rich and powerful. The first movie did, centering its conversation around the military industrial complex, with Tony's impetus for becoming Iron Man stemming from disillusionment about the ugly reality of the Middle East wars and his own personal role in making them uglier. And then having to duke it out with a war profiteer that wants to stay the course.

But then the second movie, despite wanting to talk about the far-reaching consequences of every action that wealthy and powerful men like the Starks take, opted to hold that conversation via a 1v1 revenge plot that could have happened to any superhero, really. While spending most of its time on "Self-destruction: maybe don't?"

Iron Man 3, similarly, featured a terrorist organization only tangentially related to Tony in the smallest possible way as its villain, because it wanted to talk about PTSD. While not doing a very good job of talking about PTSD.

There's a reason the first movie is considered the best Iron Man. It wanted to have a conversation that Tony Stark was uniquely equipped among superheroes to have, and it carried that conversation through the film from start to finish. It feels very much like a Tony Stark movie.

In fact, that's one of the common criticisms of the Spider-Man movies. Vulture and Mysterio feel very much like Tony Stark villains, much moreso than Vanko or Killian did. The strength of these characters and the conversations they want to hold in their films demonstrate the kind of storytelling that Stark's movies could have had, had Marvel been willing to go all in on their themes and conversations before Winter Soldier changed the game. At the expense of character-specific journeys for Peter.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117603: May 19th 2020 at 9:20:07 AM

You mean Peter isn't Iron Boy Junior?

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#117604: May 19th 2020 at 9:21:31 AM

[up][up] It is indeed debatable how much of Tony's recklessness at plugging an unknown alien AI into his systems without so much of a test is due to Wanda tampering with his mind. Although the fact that he attempts the same with Vision later on with little more hesitation hints that he would probably have done so anyway.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#117605: May 19th 2020 at 9:24:44 AM

Eh. Tony and Bruce barely accomplished anything while trying to study Ultron.

And then, the moment they take a break, he immediately comes on line, despite them having no framework set up, immediately becomes sentient, and immediately goes insane.

I always felt, and still feel there was something else going on there. It's way too strange that nothing happened at all, and then suddenly everything happens.

Ultron turning on them was one thing, but they hadn't even done much yet. It's like shanking someone in the chest after knowing them for five seconds. And I say this as someone who's always mock-blaming Tony Stark for everything.

One Strip! One Strip!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#117607: May 19th 2020 at 3:44:56 PM

Technically speaking comics Blade is actually British (by birth at least) though he's spent so much longer in the USA by now he's American culturally and in terms of accent and so on.

Not exactly, he travels the world and doesn't stay in one place for long. But he's still a brit and still has the accent.

He has even been part of British hero teams.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117608: May 19th 2020 at 3:46:46 PM

I just remember they announced a Blade comic which would introduce his adult daughter several years ago.

Still has not come out, pretty sure it was canceled.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#117609: May 19th 2020 at 3:52:48 PM

Yeah, pretty sure it's not happening anymore. Which is a shame.

But yeah, seems most TV shows will slowly slide out of canon. Which is a shame, given the pains they had gone to to keep Ao S close to movie continuity in the first seasons.

Speaking of witch, this clip seems to imply time travel is like it was in Endgame.

Edited by Cortez on May 19th 2020 at 6:56:19 AM

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#117610: May 19th 2020 at 8:51:46 PM

Welp, I guess I'm watching Iron Fist now. Let's see how this goes.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#117611: May 19th 2020 at 10:07:01 PM

[up]I'll prepare the funeral.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#117612: May 20th 2020 at 1:13:17 AM

Honestly it's not that bad. Mostly mediocre, with a few really stylish highlights here and there amidst the insipidity, but it's never really hair-pullingly bad like, say, Inhumans.

The Meachum family trainwreck is probably the best part of Season 1.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#117613: May 20th 2020 at 1:37:50 AM

Iron Fist Season 2 was actually quite good.

As for Season 1, yeah it was bland, but not like Inhumans levels of bad.

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jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#117614: May 20th 2020 at 5:59:41 AM

I would go as far as saying none of the Netflix series have been outright BAD. Bland and fairly tepid at worst, maybe with signs they could/should have been better but all of them I enjoyed watching at least to a partial extent.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#117615: May 20th 2020 at 8:10:03 AM

Agreed. Hell, I even enjoyed the widely criticized Defenders series.

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Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#117616: May 20th 2020 at 12:01:39 PM

I only watched Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and the Punisher on the Netflix side of things.

Edited by Bullman on May 20th 2020 at 2:05:26 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#117617: May 20th 2020 at 1:07:03 PM

While tony was a fault for bring peter, cap bringing antman is barely better as scott have any fighting experience, he throw a bus that would crush warmachine have vision not step in or when he launch a gas tank into the fight, Scott was a very clumsy fighter.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#117618: May 20th 2020 at 2:20:59 PM

But Scott wasn't a child.

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Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#117619: May 20th 2020 at 2:22:20 PM

Still, that fight really got out of hand, including a crippled Rhodey.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#117620: May 20th 2020 at 2:24:22 PM

To be fair Peter is a child who can catch a metal arm with one hand and fight Thanos. Not on equal footing, but still put up a fight.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#117621: May 20th 2020 at 2:38:59 PM

Spidey’s 15, his powers have nothing to do with the wrongness of recruiting him. Ant-Man is an adult with the responsibility for his own decisions.

Also, Steve thinks he’s on a save-the-world mission; he recruited Ant-Man to go to Russia and fight supersoldiers, he wasn’t expecting to end up in a brawl with Tony. His problem is that he’s making exactly the mistake the Accords were designed to avoid - vigilantes relying on their own judgement and making the wrong call on bad information with no accountability. He’s very lucky he didn't start World War III - for comparison, how would the US react if a Russian or Chinese supersoldier showed up in Los Alamos?

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117622: May 20th 2020 at 2:41:36 PM

Uhhh... what? Scott was recruited specifically because he does have fighting experience, enough to best the Avenger who recruited him - Falcon. And again, unlike Tony and Peter, we saw that both Cap and Hawkeye (and presumably Falcon) asked Scott if he was sure he wanted to go through with fighting not only the perceived threat of the other Winter Soldiers ("psycho assassins"), but also go against the Accords.

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#117623: May 20th 2020 at 2:57:56 PM

[up][up]That's it, really. Tony lies by omission when he doesn't tell Peter what Steve's reasons are and makes it seem like Black-and-White Morality. And since Peter is a 15-year-old who's been completely unaware of the whole story because he's had no reason to be involved in the international manhunt, he takes it at face value.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#117624: May 20th 2020 at 3:07:48 PM

I mean I am Team Tony, and the only reason for me to justify bringing Peter into this is basically just Doylist Fanservice.

Watsonian, it borders on Child Soldier levels of wrong.

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RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#117625: May 20th 2020 at 3:22:13 PM

If Peter's a child soldier, then he made himself one long before Tony came along. He was already going out on patrol, fighting criminals, and catching automobiles flying through the air.


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