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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
Tony recruited Peter because he needed a super with a powerset that could disable Cap, not risk killing him.
Of course Tony could've just paid for some spare webshooters and installed them on his own armor but then we wouldn't have Spider-Man fighting the Avengers now, would we?
Edited by Tuckerscreator on May 18th 2020 at 12:27:04 PM
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The Watsonian explanation would be that Tony had been on the lookout for other superheroes and chose one who was 1) young and impressionable enough to follow his orders without discussions and 2) had a completely unknown powerset that could throw the other side off balance.
The Doylist explanation, of course, was that Disney had finally got the rights back on Spiderman and that his character had featured in the comic the movie was (very loosely) based on, so he had to be there.
Edited by C105 on May 18th 2020 at 9:33:08 PM
Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.> And then there’s the fact that Aunt May doesn’t know where Peter is because Peter asked Tony not to tell her. Because, you know, she would prevent him from doing something that dangerous.
There's an 'What If' if there was one,if Peter was killed during the airport battle Aunt May would assume he's gone missing and Tony Stark would be too guilt ridden to admit the truth,however,as a consequence his death shocks both sides into ending their pointless fighting
have a listen and have a link to my discord serverI think Tony probably didn’t realize how young Peter was until he went to fetch him and by that point Tony didn’t have enough time to try to get someone else
Tony’s behavior in Homecoming is very “ok and now to live with this bad decision”
Forever liveblogging the AvengersHe definitely knew about how young Peter was, he just didn't want to admit it, because it'd make him look bad. How's he going to find out the kid's home address, determine how to manipulate him, and meet his aunt, without getting a vague age range? Even Rhodey called him out on it ("Jesus, Tony, how old is this kid?")
The reason Spider-Man was in the fight was because Tony needed someone impressionable that he could convince to help fight his battles in an international fight. Banner's not around to tell what to do, and he just spoke with Natasha about how they barely know anyone who would take their side. Team Accords was effectively just Tony Stark, his Best Friend, his Butler-Child, and a non-fully-convinced Black Widow. Black Panther was just there on a grudge mission.
So Tony has to call in his top prospect, and lie to him about motives (both by omitting Cap's reasoning, and by sidestepping the "great power great responsibility" line that Peter gives him that is a fundamentally anti-Accords stance). Given Tony already had the suit ready, it's likely he'd have thought Peter was worth recruiting as a Young Avenger soon, but this was because he didn't have other options.
EDIT: Hell, even among the Netflix heroes, Luke Cage is the only one who'd even have the slightest chance of considering it, but he mostly sticks to Harlem. I can't speak to the characters of Agents of Shield, but I doubt the Runaways, or Cloak and Dagger, would be pro-reg (and at least Cloak wasn't in the comics).
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on May 18th 2020 at 3:16:20 AM
I see, it’s not a writing problem after all. It’s just a Tony problem.
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my TumblrI remember hearing that the Russos made two scripts for Civil War, one with Spider-Man and one without. The one without Spider-Man put a bigger emphasis on Black Panther as sort of the middle-of-the-road character and they went with that one when it seemed to wouldn't reach a deal with Sony. But once the deal did go through, the script was already so far along they had to find a way to put Spider-Man in there with what they've already written.
Apparently, T'Challa wouldn't even become the Black Panther in the Spider-Man heavy script and be more of a supporting character. I'm curious how that version of the film would've played out, but I assume it follow the path of the comic and have Peter switch sides at some point.
I truly believe that Tony “didn’t notice his dad’s friend was selling weapons to terrorists” Stark could track down where Spider-Man lived and his name and then dig no further and show up and go “Aw shit a baby, why isn’t your name Spider-Baby? Shit, lets roll with it”
It’s not a great look either
Edited by Bocaj on May 18th 2020 at 4:52:15 AM
Forever liveblogging the Avengers![]()
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To be fair, "It's a Tony problem" describes a disproportionate amount of the writing: Justin Hammer, Aldrich Killian, the Vulture, Shocker, and Tinkerer, Mysterio, Baron Zemo, Wanda and Pietro going to Hydra, and Ultron and the justification for the Accords themselves, are either directly Tony's creation, or due to past-Tony being an asshole, or based on Tony's obnoxious muscling out of everyone else because he assumes his might makes right, or all of the above.
Yes, and they did even more reprehensible stuff in the comics. But movie Tony, just like movie Howard, would've been so abrasive that Pym would've gone team Cap on principle. Hope also said she'd have been Team Cap if asked, and of course Lang was Team Cap, and unlike Peter, Lang actually chose to take part because Sam, Clint, and Cap didn't lie to him.
Edited by wanderlustwarrior on May 18th 2020 at 4:12:00 AM
@Chasemaddigan -
That's very interesting. I wonder if that connects with the slightly confusing aspect of how T'Challah is using the suit in Civil War but isn't technically "The Black Panther" (i.e. the ruler of Wakanda) until his own movie.
Moreover, I wonder if the difference was in the interests of balancing the sides / achieving the proper downer ending/set-up for Thanos. Like I would have liked a movie about Tony going too far and eventually being turned on by his supporters/defeated, but besides not being "balanced", that doesn't really work to split up the band prior to Infinity War.
Also, while I like criticizing Tony Stark as much as (not quite) everyone else, but could someone please fill me in on my Blade question? Is Stokes really his middle name in the comics, or did someone make that up after Ali was cast as Blade?
Edited by Hodor2 on May 18th 2020 at 4:06:10 AM
Looking at the character page for The Tomb of Dracula and there's no mention of a middle name under Blade's entry, if that's what you mean. Terribly sorry for derailing the convo away from your question.
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my TumblrIt's nothing.
Tony's character arc was after all, about him learning of the errors of his way, and how every single mistake he ever did slammed back in his face later with extreme prejudice. As a result, in universe he appears as an extremely flawed character who keeps creating new problems when trying to solve old ones.
Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.Personally, I was alluding to posters on the forum. I'm definitely on the Team Cap / more negative view towards Tony myself, but there are some posters who are the opposite.
I will say that I liked the characterization of Tony in all of the non-Whedon movies.
However, I think that repeating the theme of him creating a villain and The Complainer Is Always Wrong with Mysterio was IMO a sign that killing off Tony was a good decision.
I feel like it's difficult to tell how much in-universe the audience (and/or Tony himself) are supposed to see his mistakes as mistakes. Like in Endgame, he tells Steve that if they had adopted his Project Insight idea they could have stopped Thanos. While in that movie, it's easy to see this as him venting out of anger and sorrow, at least according to Far From Home, Tony really did think that this was a good idea, and built it on the side without telling anyone. And entrusted it to a teenager.
Edited by Hodor2 on May 18th 2020 at 4:34:57 AM
I think the thing he says in Endgame was a reference to Ultron
Which went hilariously wrong.
I don't think we're supposed to take Tony as having a point there.
Also, he like immediately passes out from exhaustion so.
Forever liveblogging the AvengersA lot of the time when Tony fucks up he gets called out on it and does actually face consequences, moreso than most other characters. He also suffers the same problem that Dumbledore alludes to in one of the Harry Potter novels, that being so smart and powerful/influential when he does get it wrong it has way more repercussions than most people would.
Like, Ant-Man fucked up and ended up in jail. If Tony did the same thing, all his employees and their families are potentially impacted.
"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."Tony's screw-ups have gotten his chest damaged by his own weapons, removed as CEO of his own company, thrown out of the Avengers and beaten up by Steve and Bucky. In terms of consequences for misdeeds he's suffered more than anyone who isn't an outright super villain. Hell, a few super villains have got off light compared to him.
And in Ant-Man's case the only reason he got caught was because he decided to inflict more harm on his boss than was necessary.
Let’s be fair
These are the kinds of chucklefucks that would have snapped at some minor grievance or other
You see it all the time in comics.
Tony Stark does a service focusing these people’s ire on a target that can actually take it
Forever liveblogging the AvengersYeah, people make the joke that Tony created most of the villains he faced, but that's not entirely true.
- Obadiah Stane - Was already selling weapons to terrorists long before Tony became Iron Man and shut down the weapons division.
- Ivan Vanko - Wanted revenge for something Tony's father did to his family. Tony didn't even know he existed until the Monaco attack.
- Justin Hammer - A business rival who was greedy of Tony's success. Maybe you could blame Tony for humiliating him at the senate hearing?
- Loki - Lol, no.
- Aldrich Killian - Dude snubbed him at a New Year's Eve party. How the hell would he know that would turn him into a terrorist?
- Ultron - Yeah.
- Heinrich Zemo - Turned against the Avengers because of Ultron, so yeah.
- Adrian Toomes - Took command over his clean-up project, leading him to go into debt and turning to crime to recoup his losses. Unintentional, but one could reasonably blame Tony for this.
- Thanos - Lol, no.
- Quentin Beck - He was fired, but I get the feeling Beck is the kind of guy who would've snapped anyway and was just looking for an excuse.
Overall, I can roughly say that three villains are the result of Tony's actions and could be considered his fault. I guess some of this might come down to personal interpretation and how much responsibility you think Tony should bare for causing certain people to turn to evil.

I just watched Civil War. It provoked many questions. Such as:
Why was Spider-Man in the airport fight? I mean, it looked cool, but why was he there? I thought Tony’s side was governmentally sanctioned re: the Accords and has 36 hours to find Cap, why would Tony go so out of his way?
And why does he drag Peter into his issues anyway? He’s entirely disconnected from the plot of the movie until Tony shows up. I mean, surely Tony has enough firepower on his side without dragging a teenager into an international manhunt. And then there’s the fact that Aunt May doesn’t know where Peter is because Peter asked Tony not to tell her. Because, you know, she would prevent him from doing something that dangerous.
So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr