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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#117451: May 5th 2020 at 12:17:08 PM

Back when Bucky was first becoming Captain America they fought a few times and he was treated as what he is, a dangerous world class martial artist who happens to wear a silly costume. Which...is most everybody in comics at one point or another, really.

This is something very important that I wish got said more.

A lot of times, when comics characters get introduced to the general public who don't really know or care about comics beyond knee jerk reactions, you get reactions a la "this character looks silly, ergo they must be meant as a joke" or "this character looks weird, ergo they can't possibly be dangerous," which is not something that's particularly accurate about comics - where outlandish designs are part of the fun.

But with adaptations, this gets worse because - especially in the past - a lot of execs are of the "don't know or care about comics beyond knee jerk reactions."

Not just with physical appearance, really, but a lot of good concepts remain unknown by the public simply because an exec took one glance at them and called them "too risky." Film studios abhor risk, and they're especially not going to take risks on a medium they don't take seriously in the first place. This is slowly changing, but it's slow going.

Ironically, I've found the best way to convince the general public that X thing isn't silly is just to write/create a good adaptation - and now the general perception of the character is what that adaptation presented. Most comics characters the public consider A-Listers are that way because they were in a memorable adaptation in a memorable way.

But this gets worse also when writers and artists internalize these memes, and suddenly characters canonically become jokes because it's memetic for them to considered such. This is what's happened to MODOK, for instance - where him getting an adaptation gets more and more unlikely as everyone involved gets increasingly convinced he shouldn't be taken seriously.

Wow that turned into more of a rant than I intended.

The Batgirl of Burnside showed the cape to be attached with buttons so it could come off if it got snagged or grabbed.

I remember this was a gag in Darkwing Duck - Darkwing has a rip-proof cape, and the whole episode it gets him into trouble, until the end where Negaduck mocks him for it, only for his tearaway cape to prevent him from getting pulled away from an explosion.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 5th 2020 at 12:19:29 PM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#117452: May 5th 2020 at 12:24:28 PM

In Digimon Tamers, Gallantmon uses his cape like a bullfighter during his fight with Beezlemon.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117453: May 5th 2020 at 12:44:40 PM

Now that's a true Chad maneuver. [lol]

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
jouXIII The One Who Knows Many Things from Between the Multiverses (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The One Who Knows Many Things
#117454: May 5th 2020 at 12:55:13 PM

Dukemon being bullfighter, while Beelzebumon is bull is a bit of funny image.

Edited by jouXIII on May 5th 2020 at 10:55:34 PM

I assure you, I'm perfectly trustable person
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#117455: May 5th 2020 at 12:57:10 PM

The Supergirl show implied that capes helped with flight stability, and various versions of Batman show his cape to be fireproof, which adds a layer of protection for himself or others.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#117456: May 5th 2020 at 1:16:44 PM

A character that is usually taken as a joke is Shocker.

People often forget that he is a "joke" that can destroy buildings.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#117457: May 5th 2020 at 1:21:14 PM

This is what's happened to MODOK, for instance - where him getting an adaptation gets more and more unlikely as everyone involved gets increasingly convinced he shouldn't be taken seriously.

I remember the Gwenpool comic had a brutal subversion of that. When he shows up at the end of her first arc, Gwen bursts out laughing and snarks about how MODOK is a ridiculous joke who the comics never take seriously... and then MODOK fries her friend to a smoldering corpse.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#117458: May 5th 2020 at 1:55:06 PM

I think MODOK's playable appearance in Marvel vs Capcom 3 is the most serious and threatening he's ever been outside of the comics.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#117459: May 5th 2020 at 3:46:02 PM

If I remember correctly there's a couple of novels that portray MODOK dead straight and a video game that makes him a the Big Bad who succeeds in destroying reality a bunch of times.

Edited by Bullman on May 5th 2020 at 5:47:09 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#117460: May 5th 2020 at 3:58:14 PM

If you want some specifics, we have MODOK from Marvel Future Fight, and the '70s and '80s line of novels labeled as a Complete Monster. So there are adaptations where he's taken seriously as a threat.

The MCU technically did have MODOK as the Big Bad for the Iron Man 3 mobile game, but it was revealed in the final boss fight that he was Aldrich Killian again. They probably won't go that route if they decide to bring him into the films.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117461: May 5th 2020 at 4:00:49 PM

That sounds so bad... Like Killian's just making a job out of stealing other villains' names, and making it laughable to the observer. Like he's trolling the fans.

And speaking of MODOK in relation to trolling, here's his mvc3 theme.

I remember back when this was a minor meme. Good times, good times.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#117462: May 5th 2020 at 4:45:46 PM

> That sounds so bad... Like Killian's just making a job out of stealing other villains' names, and making it laughable to the observer. Like he's trolling the fans.

He'll start stealing Superhero names next the madman!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#117463: May 5th 2020 at 4:52:05 PM

Sentry is announced, and it just turns out to be Kilian.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#117464: May 5th 2020 at 4:53:42 PM

I can just see him trying to impersonate Tony Stark for some reason

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117465: May 5th 2020 at 5:35:09 PM

Nah, he was actually Mysterio!

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#117466: May 5th 2020 at 5:37:39 PM

I think the most threatening MODOK's been outside the comics was Iron Man: Armored Adventures

[up][up][up][up] I remember being pissed at the fans' reaction to MODOK when MVC3 revealed him. It was basically fans familiar with the character going "ooh, that's an interesting villain pick" and fighting game fans in full on Complacent Gaming Syndrome going "this guy isn't Captain Commando / Venom / Gambit / whatever! He looks silly! Clearly he's a nobody character and the devs are just trolling us by pretending he's not!"

I probably remember it more because there were a lot of things gamers were doing at around that time that annoyed me, but TBH when I say "MODOK's got it bad," that specific reaction is one of the big things I think of.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 5th 2020 at 5:41:06 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#117467: May 5th 2020 at 5:53:44 PM

It's funny, considering MVC has always been chock-full of C and D-listers that literally nobody has ever heard of outside of those games. MODOK is FAR more prominent than characters like Marrow and Spiral.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#117468: May 5th 2020 at 5:55:36 PM

Either "fans" have gotten whinier or we can actually hear them now.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#117469: May 5th 2020 at 6:02:19 PM

Hahaha Spiral and Marrow got into MVC?

That settles it, X-Men had it too good

Edited by Bocaj on May 5th 2020 at 9:02:32 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117470: May 5th 2020 at 6:03:31 PM

The 90’s really were the X-Men at their most prominent.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#117471: May 5th 2020 at 6:04:18 PM

For good and ill and ill and ill.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#117472: May 5th 2020 at 6:08:50 PM

MVC was probably the first time anyone outside of hardcore comic fans learned about Rocket Raccoon.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#117473: May 5th 2020 at 6:30:24 PM

This is the Marvel side of the rosters from throughout the MVC series:

  • X-Men vs Street Fighter: Cyclops, Gambit, Juggernaut, Magneto, Rogue, Sabretooth, Storm, Wolverine

  • Marvel vs Street Fighter: Blackheart, Captain America, Cyclops, Hulk, Omega Red, Shuma-Gorath, Spider-Man, Wolverine

    • I can't believe Shuma-Gorath was in this early on.

  • Marvel vs Capcom: Captain America, Gambit, Hulk, Spider-Man, Venom, War Machine, Wolverine

    • That's right, War Machine was in MVC before Iron Man.

  • Marvel vs Capcom 2: Blackheart, Cable, Captain America, Colossus, Cyclops, Doctor Doom, Gambit, Hulk, Iceman, Iron Man, Juggernaut, Magneto, Marrow, Omega Red, Psylocke, Rogue, Sabretooth, Sentinel, Shuma-Gorath, Silver Samurai, Spider-Man, Spiral, Storm, Thanos, Venom, War Machine, Wolverine

    • The original EVERYONE IS HERE.

  • Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3: Captain America, Deadpool, Doctor Doom, Doctor Strange, Dormammu, Ghost Rider, Hawkeye, Hulk, Iron Fist, Iron Man, MODOK, Magneto, Nova, Pheonix, Rocket Raccoon, Sentinel, She-Hulk, Shuma-Gorath, Spider-Man, Storm, Super-Skrull, Taskmaster, Thor, X-23

    • Tons of characters were removed, but it did take until this game to get Pheonix, Ghost Rider, Doctor Strange, Thor, and Hawkeye.

  • Marvel vs Capcom Infinite: Black Panther, Black Widow, Captain America, Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, Dormammu, Gamora, Ghost Rider, Hawkeye, Hulk, Iron Man, Nova, Rocket Raccoon, Spider-Man, Thanos, Thor, Ultron, Venom, Winter Soldier

    • No more X-Men or F4 characters, but it did take until this game to get Black Panther, Ultron, Captain Marvel, and Black Widow.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 5th 2020 at 6:40:19 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#117474: May 5th 2020 at 6:34:48 PM

[up][up] Yeah, I admit it. Ultimate MvC3 was my intro to Rocket...

[up] Man, it bites how much MvC: I was lacking...sad

Anyway, out of nowhere, apparently there's some buzz going on saying Disney+ is developing more MCU shows, including one on S.W.O.R.D., which will be a prelude to the next Captain Marvel movie.

Its title? Secret Invasion.

("Wait, but aren't the Skrulls good guys?")

The ones we saw in CM (and Spider-Man: Far From Home) were, but maybe not all of them got the memo? It would be one hell of a way to introduce Norman Osborn, who played a pretty meaty role in the Secret Invasion storyline. Moreover, CM2 is apparently an ensemble movie the same way Captain America: Civil War was? (Though that was probably already brought up?)

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#117475: May 5th 2020 at 6:41:56 PM

The most egregious bits to me are that it took until MVC2 to get Iron Man, and until MVC3 to get Pheonix (when the series STARTED with the X-Men) and Thor. Also that the series started with the X-Men and cut them out of the most recent installment.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on May 5th 2020 at 6:42:30 AM


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