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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#117351: Apr 30th 2020 at 3:42:32 PM

The Kree in the MCU are superstrong and have a healing factor from their advanced genetically engineered blood.

I could believe that the Asgardians were doing a similar thing but for far longer. They have advanced tech that they make look like medieval weaponry because they like it better that way.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#117352: Apr 30th 2020 at 6:48:56 PM

The "spider sense" is based on spiders being able to detect movement from vibrations on their webs. But it's limited to the area covered by the web only. It's not psychic powers.

Spider-Man has covered the entirety of New York with a system of invisible web secretions that only he can see. Every time you see him interacting with anyone, they're actually covered in webs head to toe, but nobody knows but him. And so he knows their every movement. Every last one.

I wrote that and then immediately heard it in Jameson's voice.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#117353: Apr 30th 2020 at 6:57:58 PM

Man, I want to see that from an AU Spidey. He just goes super crazy control-freak and absolutely covers New York with webs, all connected to each other so that he can sense when anything happens in the whole city.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#117355: Apr 30th 2020 at 7:26:15 PM

Slowest. Ceiling crash. Ever.

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Apr 30th 2020 at 10:29:39 AM

The legend has returned.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117356: May 1st 2020 at 6:58:36 AM

Its funny in Thor 1 Odin goes "We're not Gods"

And then in Ragnarok he's all "What are you the God of?"

Yeah, that really demonstrates the difference in artistic visions over the Thor franchise. That's the kind of thing that happens when you have different creators overseeing different entries of one series. We see it in the comics all the time.

Taika Waititi and his team leaned much more heavily into the Asgardians being actual literal gods than any of the writers in the past had done so. It was a marked departure from what had been the MCU's official word up to that point: Sufficiently Advanced Aliens.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#117357: May 1st 2020 at 8:33:08 AM

And Thor's reaction to Doctor Strange was one of familiarity with magic rather than claiming he is doing something different.

The vagueness of his "They are one and the same" dialogue in the first movie just proved how unnecessary the justification really was. He didn't share anything that would have cracked a code for Jane, just philosophical musings.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#117358: May 1st 2020 at 8:45:24 AM

Not the most original opinion, but it's very striking how for better or worse, the earlier MCU movies were more "realistic" / less "fantastical" compared to more recent movies.

And my sense is that it's a double-edged sword because while I prefer to approach of more recent movies, I don't think the MCU would be as successful if it had started with that approach.

Besides Thor, I'm also struck by how the Mandarin went from being an implied Bin Laden equivalent to being a front, to being established as Real After All in a questionably canonical context, to finally (presumably) ending up as a Chinese martial artist with superpowers.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#117359: May 1st 2020 at 8:50:07 AM

Think we'll see Killian and Trevor's heads mounted on a wall in the Shang Chi movie?

Wake me up at your own risk.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#117360: May 1st 2020 at 8:54:50 AM

Oh. Most definitely.

Although this may not be the case, when I was envisioning Shang Chi starting out as the Mandarin's dutiful son, I imagined the two of them having an amicable meal and the Mandarin being a cool dad while Trevor hung from the ceiling in a cage.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117361: May 1st 2020 at 9:30:30 AM

Not the most original opinion, but it's very striking how for better or worse, the earlier MCU movies were more "realistic" / less "fantastical" compared to more recent movies.

That's the biggest irony of the MCU's success. The thing that really set them apart from other superhero adaptations, the thing that made them the phenomenon that they became, was because they weren't afraid to embrace the source material. In stark contrast to many other superhero film franchises, it rarely felt like they were apologizing for adapting something as silly as comic books.

Willingness to take risks and defy convention has been an element of the MCU ever since Tony Stark's famous "I am Iron Man" speech blew audience's minds.

And yet, while you could feel the difference between films like Iron Man or Thor or Captain America: First Avenger versus films like the X-Men movies or The Dark Knight saga, you can also feel that same difference between Phase 1 films and Phase 3.

Marvel's mission statement over the years has moved from, "I make superhero movies and I don't have to apologize for them being a little bit silly sometimes," to "SCREW YOU, I make MOTHERF*CKING SUPERHERO MOVIES and you can MOTHERF*CKING DEAL WITH IT." Confidence in their guaranteed success has made Marvel bolder in adaptation.

Edited by TobiasDrake on May 1st 2020 at 10:34:28 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#117362: May 1st 2020 at 9:32:47 AM

I'm imagining Mandarin will essentially be a one man HYDRA, or like Ra's Al Ghul with even more wizardry. To most of the world, he's a venerable man who advises some of the most powerful people in the world. To Shang, he secretly leads an organization that defeats evil and covertly protects the world.

But in reality, that secret organization is built to prop himself on top, and has toes in all manner of crime - from terrorism, to espionage, to super crime, all with misdirection that keeps anyone, even his own son, from finding out who he really is.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 1st 2020 at 9:36:07 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#117363: May 1st 2020 at 9:34:45 AM

Guardians of the Galaxy was probably the turning point for the series, when the MCU showed they could adapt almost any property (no matter how outlandish) and have it be a success.

Honest Trailers put it best how Phase One was the equivalent to a rock band finding their voice, Phase Two was their weird experimental period, and Phase Three was their "WOOHOO, we can do whatever we want!" period.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#117364: May 1st 2020 at 12:52:27 PM

Think we'll see Killian and Trevor's heads mounted on a wall in the Shang Chi movie?

All the Mandarin's horses and all the Mandarin's men couldn't put that one together again.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#117365: May 1st 2020 at 1:05:52 PM

Going from darn and somewhat grounded to more and more fantastical isn't just an MCU thing.

The Arrowverse had a similar development.

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C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#117366: May 1st 2020 at 1:47:58 PM

I binge watched the Avengers movies last Christmas, and the shift in tone was quite interesting to see. Especially the first two Iron Man movies, which takes some pain to look as if they could happen in our universe. A few movies after that, and the universes have definitely diverged.

My brother also once remarked to me that, in Phase 1 and 2 at least, each movie was a different genre. The Iron Man films were more technothrillers, Captain America were war or spy films, and Thor was fantasy. Later on the GoG films were space opera while Ant-Man borderline comedies. From Phase 3 onward though, most films began blending genres and verged all into varying levels of Crazy Awesome superhero stuff.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#117367: May 1st 2020 at 3:28:40 PM

Ant-Man is heist films. Both of them, actually. Spider-Man Homecoming is a coming of age high school drama, Far From Home is a high school road trip film.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117368: May 1st 2020 at 5:06:26 PM

That's something I'd noted about the first half of the MCU so far, too. Particularly with the first two Cap films. Thor 1 was a Shakespearean drama (Hamlet), as well. They've previously stated that Doctor Strange 2 will be more of a horror film.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#117369: May 1st 2020 at 6:58:13 PM

  • The Iron Man movies are the most straightforward action movies of the lot.
  • The Incredible Hulk has a sci-fi horror feel to it.
  • The Thor movies are Shakespearean tragedies, even Ragnarok.
  • Captain America has war movie and spy movie intrigue.
  • The Avengers are their own mix of disaster movie and action.
  • Guardians of the Galaxy is a mix of space opera and asshole comedy.
  • Ant-Man is a heist movie with a sci-fi edge.
  • Doctor Strange is a mix of surreal horror and arthouse cinema.
  • Spider-Man has a coming-of-age story.
  • Black Panther is an afrofuturist movie to a t.
  • Captain Marvel seems the most like a female empowerment thing.

The legend has returned.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#117370: May 1st 2020 at 7:00:53 PM

Some of those aren't so much genres as aesthetics, styles, or messages.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#117371: May 1st 2020 at 7:34:38 PM

I think Captain Marvel is at least partly a late 1980's / early 1990's George Lucas Throwback, and the setting has more of a purpose than just to fit it into MCU chronology.

With Carol and Maria's military life,it's basically Top Gun with Les Yay replacing Ho Yay (and there were also a bunch of dramas about military personnel during the same timeframe).

I also feel like the Skrull twist is really clever in that Carol and Fury (and the audience) think she's in They Live! or a dark sci fi movie like Alien (and sequels), but they're actually in Alien Nation or ALF.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117372: May 1st 2020 at 11:19:49 PM

Hulk was more of a Kaiju/monster movie.

deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#117373: May 2nd 2020 at 1:14:46 PM

I definitely agree that GOTG was THE turning point in terms of the shift in tone. Arguably even more so than the Avengers. The outlandish odd goofy humor and colorful personality basically changed everything. The Avengers was the first time you see the different worlds collide, but it wasn't exactly genre-bending, risky, or weird like GOTG.

In my opinion, the biggest MCU genre-benders (not counting IW or Endgame) are the GOTG movies, Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Ragnarok, Spider-Man Homecoming, and Black Panther, which is probably why most of those are the more popular films in the franchise.

Spider-Man Homecoming is a coming of age high school drama, Far From Home is a high school road trip film.
For me, Spider-Man Homecoming is very different from FFH. FFH feels way more like an action adventure film with higher stakes and teenagers just being the main characters, while Homecoming is a high school coming-of-age story with superheroism on the side.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117374: May 2nd 2020 at 1:28:25 PM

The fact they made a movie starring a talking raccoon & a tree monster that can only ever say 3 words a success & genuinly compelling characters in their own right was proof to Marvel that they could do anything.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#117375: May 2nd 2020 at 1:59:52 PM

I love the original GOTG, but I really do prefer the second one.

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