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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#117326: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:11:11 PM

Since I am playing the PS 4 game now and there is a lot of it there too, when exactly did Spider-Man being an Iron Man Jr. in terms of tech start being a thing?

I mean sure, from time to time he wore some armor like in Civil War, but most of the time he is just in his spandex and the most he has are his web shooters.

Nowadays he has drones, electro shockers, AI and what not.

Did the MCU start that trend? Not sure I like that.

Spider-Man's always been more of a techie than he gets credit for. He's an underrated super-genius of the Marvel Universe.

But he definitely amped up the techie side of the character some time after the heavily maligned One More Day arc. Having lost his job as a science teacher and after being forcibly character-regressed to the Daily Bugle for a while, Peter got hired on as an engineer at Horizon Labs where he was able to actually build gadgets, spider-suits, and other gear full-time.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 30th 2020 at 3:14:45 AM

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#117327: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:14:51 PM

Spider-Man was making up tech solutions to problems all the way back when he first fought the Vulture

It’s writers that have him muscle past everything that do him a disservice

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117328: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:16:30 PM

[up][up] At that point Peter sorta combined his identities by publicly becoming the official supplier of Spider-Man's equipment.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#117329: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:16:58 PM

You just have to remember he made his webbing and the webshooters on a really small budget to really realize how smart the guy is.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#117330: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:19:00 PM

Yeah, even before Horizon, the dude somehow managed to tune radio transmitters to the exact frequency of his Spider-Sense and make them small enough to fit in a little chunk of plastic the size of a quarter, shaped like a spider for vanity purposes.

And let's not forget his specialized web cartridges. Ice webs, taser webs, acid webs, impact webs, magnetic webs....

And let's not forget that most important of all Spider-gadgets, seen in many adaptations of the character and universally recognized as a highlight of Spider-Man's career, the SPIDER-MOBILE.

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#117331: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:21:03 PM

I was always more on the "Organic Web Shooter" team, honestly x)

I mean, it never made sense to me that the supposed powerset of a Spider somehow lacks the most vital part, the freaking webbing.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#117332: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:25:41 PM

I used to be on the Organic Web Shooter team. But as I got more into the comics, I started to realize how important Pete's super-genius is to the character.

More often than not, it's his intelligence that defeats his foes, not his powerset. His powers just give him the ability to keep up and apply his intelligence. They let him survive a super-fight long enough to think his way around the problem and devise a solution.

Spider-Man is a Guile Hero in Superpower Lottery's clothes.

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#117333: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:35:43 PM

Spiders: well known for their psychic powers and shooting web from not their butts

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#117334: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:38:08 PM

FUN FACT: If you ask Google, "Do spiders have a danger sense?", Google will answer with:

Spiders can detect danger coming their way with an early-warning system called eyes.

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fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#117335: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:39:24 PM

[up]Smartass.

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#117336: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:39:38 PM

The "spider sense" is based on spiders being able to detect movement from vibrations on their webs. But it's limited to the area covered by the web only. It's not psychic powers.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#117337: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:41:22 PM

Basically Parker does the same thing as [up] but rather than normal webs, he uses the WEBS OF FATE.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#117338: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:42:09 PM

I tolerated Organic Webbing at the time, but Pete making his webbing himself is way too important.

I've said he's the Marvel Universe's Jack of All Stats (he's fast, strong, and smart) and I stand by it.

In terms of the last one, he's only every lacked the resources to really apply his genius, but when he does, he busts out some pretty useful stuff.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#117339: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:42:31 PM

I think I remember Stan Lee at some point saying that Spider-Man's danger-sense happened because he got his insects/arachnids wrong, and that it was actually based on the way that flies seem to preternaturally detect anything coming for them, making them extremely difficult to swat.

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#117340: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:45:25 PM

I was inclined to believe the Soul Stone was Heimdall's eyes, since it would've made sense, and it would've given a corny but appropriate initialism.

  • Tesseract
  • Heimdall Eyes
  • Aether
  • Necklace (Eye of Agamotto)
  • Orb
  • Scepter

But as for the locations of the stones:

  • Space: Used by various civilizations until it was put on Asgard because Odin got it, and remained on Asgard until some point at or after 965 AD, when it was put on Earth at Tonsburg, at some point after the Battle of Tonsburg. After the Battle of New York, it was again stored on Asgard.
  • Soul: Vormir, presumably since the start of time or last use.
  • Reality: varies. Started with the Dark Elves who are from Svartalfheim (one of the Nine Realms), but may not have originated there. King Bor then put it in a dimensional convergence wormhole that can be accessed from Earth, but relies on the alignment of the Nine Realms, and only every 5000 years, meaning it was put there at the latest around 3000 BC. When it was recovered from Earth, it was almost immediately sent to Knowhere, since there was already a Stone on Asgard (Space).
  • Time: Only ever known to be on Earth, and was used by Agamotto, but has no known association with Asgard. Agamotto did however understand what it was and trained his top successors and their attendants to keep that knowledge going.
  • Power: Used by A Celestial and then various cosmic beings until it was kept on Morag under an ocean that only recedes every 300 years, then stored on Xandar.
  • Mind: Of unknown location until it came into Thanos' posession. Thanos then had Loki take it to Earth (presumably without telling him what it was) to aid in his retrieval of other stones.

We may not be surprised to eventually learn that the Celestials or Eternals are the ones who used the stones and that's why they started on various planets.

So we can see that during 2012, four stones were technically on Earth. One was only intended to be there for a couple of days. One of them was locked behind a "once every 5000 year dimensional rift" wall by Bor, one was presumably placed their by Odin 4000 years after then, possibly without the knowledge there's already a Stone on Earth. One was known to be on Earth under the possession of Agamotto, but it's uncertain if Asgardians and Earth Sorcerers both knew the other had a Stone on Earth.

So the questions we have are:

  1. Which of the Nine Realms was the Reality Stone and its chamber actually on?
  2. Did Odin (or whoever left the Space Stone on Earth) know Bor had already left a Stone in the Convergence at a point accessible from Earth?
  3. Did Bor or Odin know of Earth's Sorcerers, or that Earth's Sorcerers had the Time Stone?
  4. How and Why did Heimdall send Hulk directly to the Sanctum Sanctorum (one of three, and the only one actively housing the Time Stone) to warn them?
  5. Which prior Asgardian had contemplated or started an Infinity Quest, resulting in the "fake" glove being in Odin's Vault?

Given the unusual statements and actions of Hela and Heimdall, we can likely assume that Odin or some prior King of Asgard had considered an Infinity Quest, and either failed or found the cost (or wait time) was too great. At some point Odin/or and Heimdall knew 2 Stones were on Earth, and a 3rd could be accessed from Earth in coming years, so they moved one of the known Stones. Then when the third surfaced (Odin must've been annoyed at how soon and how easily), they moved it to a third, "neutral" location. But the logic of giving one out of six items in a Fetch Quest to someone called "The Collector" is kind of asking for trouble.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Apr 30th 2020 at 4:47:47 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#117341: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:49:31 PM

From here:

Steve Ditko: "That idea [for 'Spider-Senses'] came after Stan and I were going over the penciled Chameleon story/art pages. Stan asked me a very good question: "How, in a darkened room, does Spider-Man know where Chameleon is?"

"At some point, I took a pencil and drew squiggly lines radiating from Spider-Man's head, and said, 'Spider-Man has Spider-Senses, the way bats can detect, sense insects, objects at night.' Stan accepted the idea as valid. We went over the earlier pages, and wherever we thought appropriate, I added the squiggly lines denoting spider-senses around Peter Parker/Spider-Man heads."

It didn't have anything to do with flies, though incidentally their eyes have 4 times the frame rate of human eyes.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#117342: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:53:15 PM

Animals in general tend to have more acute awareness of their senses than humans. Including the Spider-sense as part of the Required Secondary Powers (environment navigation to match your increased speed and agility) just seems natural. The problem is when the Spider-sense is claimed to be a catch-all "Can never be surprised" because that just guarantees some plot hole or other oversight (something not even the MCU Spider-Man has really figured out, the fact he even had a spider-sense was more of an Informed Ability before the climax of Far From Home). In comparison Wolverines Super-Senses was him being a bloodhound rather than picking up on any little inconsistency.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117343: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:55:42 PM

Loki has also questioned why and how Heimdall, who could potentially challenge Odin in one-on-one combat, served Odin.

It actually does seem quite possible that Odin had previously tried an Infinity Quest, and realized that the cost (probably sacrificing another family member after he'd already sealed away Hela), or his own father's wishes not to unite the Stones, suggested it was a bad idea.

What if Heimdall's powers are Soul or Mind Stone derived?

What if Odin and Heimdall knew where 3 or 4 (if they knew of Vormir and intentionally told Thor it was lost) of the Stones were, were happy to die with that knowledge to make sure that no one ever united the Gauntlet...
And then in a matter of 18 months, Jane Foster and Erik Selvig dumb lucked their way into activating two of the Stones?

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Apr 30th 2020 at 5:05:15 AM

FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#117344: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:57:21 PM

I'm fine with him being smart, coming up with clever ways to defeat his opponents, but... Well, it's one thing for him to have his own gadgets. Things like the web shooters and spider tracers can be cool. But when he's straight up using an Iron Man armor, that's kind of lame to me. I prefer him being more down to earth, and having a limit to his genius. It helps keep him more relatable. Leave the "invent anything out of a box of scraps" to Tony Stark and Reed Richards.

For webshooters themselves, I'm fine either way. Having them as an actual power does make them more distinct from generic bugs. And yeah, it's not realistic that they're on his wrists, but come on, none of his powers are a realistic result of a spider bite, radioactive or genetically augmented or otherwise. It doesn't really stretch belief anymore than him coming up with an incredible web formula that can be compressed to an insane degree. Personally I think a mix would be interesting, have the webs be organic, but he uses web shooters to get more varied uses out of them.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#117345: Apr 30th 2020 at 3:29:22 PM

Where would he produce the webbing? How would he shoot it? These are not questions I want to think about.

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#117346: Apr 30th 2020 at 3:32:51 PM

RE: Organic Web Shooters: Hey, I know Sam Raimi is a god among men, but I'm not gonna lie, I always thought the web fluid coming from Spidey's wrists themselves was gross...

Speaking of Spider-Man, since Daredevil is 99.9% likely to not show up in the MCU's Spider-Man 3, I'm starting to wonder if they'll even bother with courtrooms and legal stuff and it'll basically be The Fugitive, but with superpowers.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#117347: Apr 30th 2020 at 3:34:03 PM

By the way, do we know exactly where Asgardian's powers come from? Loki and Freya are explicitly said to use some kind of magic, but Thor, Heimdall and Hela's powers are never really explained. Even Thor did not know about his own powers. Makes one wonder if there are some Asgardian mutants, or if Asgardians have found a way to imbue people with powers (and Odin of course decided his bloodline would be the first to benefit from it), but that does not explain either why there are not more people with Heimdall's power, for instance.

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
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#117348: Apr 30th 2020 at 3:35:19 PM

Butt

Spinnerette manages wellllllllllllll enough

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#117349: Apr 30th 2020 at 3:38:26 PM

[up][up] Its funny in Thor 1 Odin goes "We're not Gods"

And then in Ragnarok he's all "What are you the God of?"

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#117350: Apr 30th 2020 at 3:40:41 PM

It's funny how at first, they tried to be like The Dark Knight Trilogy in terms of realism then they just branched out and did their own thing.

The legend has returned.

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