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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#117301: Apr 29th 2020 at 9:53:01 PM

[up][up]She is, but only as a brief cameo (Daredevil interrogates her about the Blacksmith) and the retcon reveal that she's a member of the Hand hadn't come yet.

"Mixed bag" is definitely how I'd describe DD S2. The first four episodes are incredibly strong, arguably the peak of the entire Marvel Netflix Universe, but then the remaining nine episodes really fluctuate in quality from moment to moment. Stick's scenes— past and present —are great, but Daredevil and Electra investigating the Hand is dull. Frank Castle's trial is great, but Matt's increasing flakiness toward his friends gets really obnoxious and unbelievable as it continues. Punisher's scenes in prison are great, but once he escapes from prison his plotline becomes dull and disconnected. The final rooftop battle is amazing, but we have to go through a really half-baked and ambiguous Hand plot to get there.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#117302: Apr 29th 2020 at 10:58:28 PM

I completely forgot about the Matt and Elektra story happening at the same time. That was definitely the worst part of that season.

Season 2 of Daredevil: Where everyone's a better character than Daredevil.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#117303: Apr 29th 2020 at 11:18:49 PM

D'onofrio is actually older than Chiklis, movie magic can help make an actor look more athletic and spry than they are.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#117304: Apr 30th 2020 at 1:00:36 AM

[up] Case in point: Samuel L. Jackson, who is pushing 70 and was still throwing punches around and looking 40 years younger in Captain Marvel.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#117305: Apr 30th 2020 at 1:33:29 AM

Blacks don't crack.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#117306: Apr 30th 2020 at 4:18:56 AM

[up][up] Pretty sure that was because they used de-aging CG the same way they used it on Michael Douglas for the flashbacks in the Ant-Man movies. Did anyone mention SLJ doing any particularly demanding stunts for CM?

[up][up][up] Chiklis is younger than D'Onofrio? Dang!

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#117308: Apr 30th 2020 at 8:23:21 AM

If for no other reason I’m glad that they didn’t use that because it would have meant yet another infinity stone on Earth

Interestingly Infinity Wars, the comic intended to maybe promote the movie, ended with the new quo that the stones would fuse with people

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#117309: Apr 30th 2020 at 8:59:28 AM

Maybe the real Soul Stone was the friends we made along the way.

... I'm awful. evil grin

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#117310: Apr 30th 2020 at 9:17:11 AM

Wanda, Vision, Captain Marvel

Say you’re onto something

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117311: Apr 30th 2020 at 11:26:38 AM

The real Soul Stone is the friends we made along the way.

And then murdered.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#117312: Apr 30th 2020 at 11:32:43 AM

Although I realize that it gets into the Unfortunate Implications of Ancient Astronauts, I remember liking that theory that the Soul Stone was in Wakanda, because it would neatly explain how Wakandans were able to communicate with the dead and why those visions had a purple tint.

Edited by Hodor2 on Apr 30th 2020 at 1:33:06 PM

ChumlyX1995 Since: Jan, 2020
#117313: Apr 30th 2020 at 11:35:13 AM

I guess with Disney making a live action Hercules based on there animated movie from the 90s, the MCU wont be getting Hercules at all. At least not in the next 10 years (and the MCU might be over by then)

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#117314: Apr 30th 2020 at 11:45:02 AM

[up][up] One thing that bugged me for a while in the MCU was the severe Arc Welding with the Infinity Stones, and how for a while everything seemed to be rewritten into actually being because of an Infinity Stone. Imo, it put a stopper on the universe actually growing.

So I say let the mysticism just be mysticism.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117315: Apr 30th 2020 at 11:47:25 AM

It's the product of Disney not really having a long-term plan. The thing that served as the bane of the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy is also visible in the Marvel Cinematic Universe; it's just that the MCU was packaged on the premise of individual franchises that cross into each other here and there instead of being one single absolute vision of a story, so the inconsistency was less of a problem.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 30th 2020 at 12:48:07 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#117316: Apr 30th 2020 at 11:50:28 AM

In fairness, the Infinity Stones are mystical in nature.

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#117317: Apr 30th 2020 at 11:51:01 AM

It also helped that the MCU was built with the idea that everything would be in one world and be somewhat consistent. Iron Man 1/Thor 1/First Avenger were all made with the end goal of Avengers but also made to stand on their own in case any of the Phase 1 films bombed and took the entire Marvel Studios with it. So it did have a better foundation than the Star wars Sequel Trilogy.

ChumlyX1995 Since: Jan, 2020
#117318: Apr 30th 2020 at 12:14:52 PM

[up][up][up][up]Ryan Coogler didn’t want that because he believed that vibranium was already enough of a MacGuffin device.

I also remember the theory that Heimdell possessed the soul stone because of his sight abilities and that his eyes were orange.

Either way. Glad they went with it on Vormir. Having all 6 stones be tied to Earth and Asgard, compared to the whole universe would be unreal.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#117319: Apr 30th 2020 at 12:36:41 PM

I do like the idea that one of the stones in an enormous universe didn’t enter semi common knowledge

Execution wasn’t the best but the basic concept of a doom planet where the stone has successfully remained obscure is good

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#117320: Apr 30th 2020 at 12:53:00 PM

It does make you wonder how Gamora learned about it.

And when for that matter.

One Strip! One Strip!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#117321: Apr 30th 2020 at 12:54:53 PM

When I first watch Thor: Ragnarok, I thought it was going to be revealed that the Eternal Flame was the Soul Stone. It was orange, and Hela used it to resurrect her army. Obviously, that didn't end up being the case.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#117322: Apr 30th 2020 at 1:03:44 PM

Gamora apparently found a map which she memorized and then burned

Half of this was a mistake

But presumably it’s like the Infinity Quest comic where Thanos went on a big research kick and found scraps of information in old old records and ruins that he eventually pulled together to learn the true power of the Infinity stone gems

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#117323: Apr 30th 2020 at 1:51:34 PM

I actually wouldn't have had a problem with all the Infinity Gems being connected through Asgard, not Earth. It would have required doing something very different with some of the Gems than what they actually wound up doing (especially the Time and Soul Gems), mind. So it wouldn't be something they could just start writing when Infinity War came along.

But as a long-term plan, the idea that Asgard has some connection to the secret locations of each Infinity Gem would actually gel with Odin's imperialism. Like, I could totally believe that Old Imperialist Odin hunted down the Infinity Gems and maybe even used them to make Asgard the shimmering titan of an Empire that it became, but as part of realizing the folly of his conquering, decided that the Gems need to be hidden away.

So that's why the Space Gem was stashed on Earth. The Reality Gem was in the asscrack of some planet somewhere. The Power Gem was left in a ruin that nobody would ever visit. Etc. etc. You could even justify the Time Gem and Mind Gem being where they are by saying that those Gems' secret hiding places were discovered by the wizards and Thanos, respectively. Maybe Odin found a way to hide the Time Gem in the Dark Dimension?

The only thing you'd really have to throw out is Vormir. And then nothing of value is lost, really.

Shit, there's even an Easter Egg that could easily become retroactive foreshadowing that way. "Odin once gathered the Infinity Gems?" Yeah, why do you think he has an Infinity Gauntlet in his vault?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 30th 2020 at 2:56:44 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#117324: Apr 30th 2020 at 1:53:46 PM

I'd like to observe Disney SW and MCU are wholly different beasts. MCU was set up and organized when Marvel Studios was a independent entity: Disney bought the franchise in late 2009 and only assumed full control in 2010. By that time, Iron Man, Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 2 had all been released and Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger were well into production (so much so both that they were distributed by Paramount, rather than Disney, due pre-existing contracts). The Avengers could be called the first MCU movie of the "Disney era": produced by Disney, distributed by Disney.

The whole set-up of a cinematic universe under the auspices of Kevin Feige was already there and a proven money-maker by Marvel Studios, Disney bought it after it was solidified and just sit back and let it roll.

Disney SW, on the other hand, was built from scratch. The closest thing to a Kevin Feige equivalent beforehand was George Lucas, and Disney put him out to pasture alongside his pet project (The Clone Wars).

The fact Disney didn't built the functioning engines of the MCU (Marvel Studios did), rather just appropriated what was already there, is a factoid to keep in mind when it comes to SW and the MCU.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#117325: Apr 30th 2020 at 2:04:09 PM

Since I am playing the PS4 game now and there is a lot of it there too, when exactly did Spider-Man being an Iron Man Jr. in terms of tech start being a thing?

I mean sure, from time to time he wore some armor like in Civil War, but most of the time he is just in his spandex and the most he has are his web shooters.

Nowadays he has drones, electro shockers, AI and what not.

Did the MCU start that trend? Not sure I like that.

Edited by Forenperser on Apr 30th 2020 at 11:04:20 AM

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