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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#116851: Apr 9th 2020 at 10:41:54 PM

I feel like a Whedon Infinity War movie would have the Avengers be a unshackled mess for half of it while Thanos goes in what's essentially the Thanos Quest from the comics to gather up the Stones while he works some plan to throw the Avengers one against the other (maybe using the Stones to control Vision at a distance, somehow?). Snaps halfway through the movie and gets his clocks cleaned by virtue of self-sabotage allá The Infinity Gauntlet.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#116852: Apr 9th 2020 at 10:42:21 PM

In fairness, not every Ultron story was Ultron Unlimited.

A lot of Ultron stories are "and then Ultron built a robot nun"

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#116853: Apr 9th 2020 at 10:43:30 PM

One bit I remember reading from an concept art book I bought on the MCU is that the artists said that Whedon tends to encourage more "comic book" designs while the Russos lean toward "realistic" designs. So that's why we got things like Cap's suit in The Avengers being very brightly colored and "old fashioned" while from Winter Soldier on Cap's looks were more muted in color and armor-like. Or Black Widow having Tron Lines on her Age of Ultron suit while Thanos ditches his armor early in Infinity War.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Apr 9th 2020 at 10:45:26 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116854: Apr 9th 2020 at 10:44:14 PM

Age of Ultron was a terrible Ultron story.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#116855: Apr 9th 2020 at 10:58:33 PM

I think Ultron should have been more of a threat, for sure. It's a rogue AI in a world of supertech. He should be incredibly dangerous. Honestly, the biggest problem would be explaining how he could actually lose.

Edited by FGHIK on Apr 9th 2020 at 12:58:51 PM

deuteragonist Since: Dec, 2013
#116856: Apr 9th 2020 at 11:02:02 PM

Tbh, I’ve always loved Ao U’s take on Ultron and never really got the hate. He has a lot of personality and a motivation. Some pretty great lines and scenes too.

Still not sure how I feel about the movie but Ultron was definitely a highlight.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#116857: Apr 9th 2020 at 11:03:41 PM

I like the idea of locking Ultron out of the net to defeat him, but I think in the actual movie it was way too easy. Vision basically pops into existence with the ability to nullify Ultron - and yes, there's a plot reason that he's so powerful in relation, but it's still a tension killer.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 9th 2020 at 11:04:01 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#116858: Apr 9th 2020 at 11:05:25 PM

[up]It dosent help that:

a) Ultron is kinda ausent most of the fight, meaning all the avengers do is fighting is droid, which as intersting as power ranger beating putties again.

and b), that Joss cant stop trying to be funny, he choke thor...and then he make that a joke.

Once the helicarrier ex machina come ultron thread is defleated and it become a avenger show time.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116859: Apr 9th 2020 at 11:16:18 PM

[up][up][up] It's because he's weak.

The personality is okay, James Spader gives a good performance for the most part.

Its the fact he is such a loser towards the Avengers is a big issue.

[up] It does get too quippy. And not even the kind of despair quips where the villain is so immeasurable he's casually throwing jokes & none of the heroes can shit him up because he's too powerful.

[down] Oh shit, well thank you.

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 9th 2020 at 11:21:00 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#116860: Apr 9th 2020 at 11:17:46 PM

It's James Spader.

Edited by ArthurEld on Apr 9th 2020 at 2:18:20 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#116861: Apr 9th 2020 at 11:21:08 PM

The superior Ultron is D.A.V.E. from The Batman. Inhumanly strong, too fast and too smart for humans, and with a classy villain flair too.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#116862: Apr 9th 2020 at 11:40:59 PM

The superior Ultron is Ultron from Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 10th 2020 at 12:20:01 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#116864: Apr 10th 2020 at 12:33:55 AM

Man, EMH was great.

Or: "How an Avengers vs Adamantium Ultron should look:"

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#116865: Apr 10th 2020 at 1:15:49 AM

"Beep boop, I am a robot, calculating targets" Ultron is so boring though.

The low threat level is unfortunate but MCU Ultron's personality was perfect.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#116866: Apr 10th 2020 at 1:23:48 AM

I disagree. In fact, I felt Age of Ultron was a good examples of the some of the MCU's most flat characterization - both when it came to the villain and the heroes.

Whedon has always had a big problem with confusing "is sarcastic, cool and occasionally angsty" with human characterization, and it really shows with Ultron. There wasn't really anything to Ultron's character in most scenes but the capacity to make jokes, which got real old by the end of the movie. Especially given that the stuff that would have made him more interesting and human - like motivations and desires and stuff - were all over the place and seemed to pop in and out of the plot on the fly.

Meanwhile, being robotic in temperament and being nothing but "beep boop, I am a robot, calculating targets" are in no way the same thing (I definitely wouldn't describe EMH Ultron, or really any Ultron I've seen, that way), and the colder approach works for a reason. If anything AOE basically takes that characterization but tries to pretend it's not doing it, going halfway in an attempt to subvert-but-not-really it for the heck of it, and just left the character kind of half conceived.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 10th 2020 at 1:39:03 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#116867: Apr 10th 2020 at 1:35:03 AM

I mean, look Vision, this two scene are the most remenber of the movie: the first one when he just stop and look at the window and is conversation with Ultron which feels....human.

Ultron just like the movie feel....fast, never stoping and you cant sit and understand him.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#116868: Apr 10th 2020 at 1:38:37 AM

Ultron is at his most human in his very first scene, where he looks at the whole of human history and legitimately seems crushed, and talks vulnerably with JARVIS, and he doesn't reach that level again for the rest of the film. Compared to his final scene, where it's just him ranting the typical "they deserve to die, you're a fool, nyar!" followed by dying, it felt like wasted potential.

The other surprisingly human trait I found interesting with him is that he's religious, which is a really cool idea for a robot, but the movie ultimately only uses it so he can make intimidating faux-biblical villain speeches and doesn't do anything with it otherwise.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 10th 2020 at 1:40:14 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116869: Apr 10th 2020 at 1:39:49 AM

Those were some good speeches though.

Shame his ultimate plan wound up being just dropping a really big rock.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#116870: Apr 10th 2020 at 1:40:22 AM

I can see the appeal behind Ultron being really messed up and dysfunctional as opposed to stoic and calculating, but it was done better in his first scenes with a horror undertone and an unpredictable Blue-and-Orange Morality than later on when he just became an ineffectual run of the mill Smug Snake.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#116871: Apr 10th 2020 at 1:41:41 AM

[up][up] Ultron telling all the other omnicidal robots his plan in Robot Hell.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116872: Apr 10th 2020 at 1:44:17 AM

[up] Unrelated but that is by far my least favorite Killer Croc design in any medium.

With my favorite being The Batman's. tongue

Edited by slimcoder on Apr 10th 2020 at 1:52:50 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#116873: Apr 10th 2020 at 1:47:47 AM

Yeah... not my favorite either (The Batman's, tho? Love it, even if he doesn't look human any more), though the Arkham Asylum one (minus Origins) is my personal least favorite.

I think the BTAS design was meant to look good in the shadows (because his first episode is really dark and noir, and it is pretty decent here), but then the rest of his episodes were in the light and he just looks too pasty and undetailed.

Which is probably why his redesign in TNBA was so drastic.

But yeah, I guess that's all unrelated.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 10th 2020 at 1:49:48 AM

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#116874: Apr 10th 2020 at 5:58:08 AM

Oh, I miss Avengers EMH. I was more or less my first serious introduction to the Avengers universe and it still ranks as one of my favourite superhero cartoons (along with Justice League).

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#116875: Apr 10th 2020 at 6:57:48 AM

You know, when I wrote that Ultron was awesome, it wasn't an invitation for all of you to come in and start trying to explain how I'm wrong. I'm sure you all have some fine explanations, but I don't care: Ultron was awesome. This isn't a "change my mind" announcement, it's a "I've already made up my mind and Ultron was freakin' awesome" one.

"Okay, but he loses too much—" Don't care.

"Okay, but he's way too quippy—" It's why I like him.

"Okay, but he doesn't have the same character development—" Yes, he does.

"The Avengers are way too sloppy in that—" Not talking about them, talking about Ultron here.

Edited by alliterator on Apr 10th 2020 at 6:59:56 AM


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