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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116551: Mar 21st 2020 at 2:18:05 PM

Now that I think about it, now that we are having major TV shows, a Mutant academy series could work very well as a TV show.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#116552: Mar 21st 2020 at 2:38:37 PM

They might be able to get Chris Evans back for a brief cameo or so. You wouldn't be able to go in-depth into Howling Commando times but you could have a brief snippet of Howling Logan standing in the same shot as Cap

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#116553: Mar 21st 2020 at 4:46:09 PM

Figured. With Cap back and gone, the chances for an emotional reunion like Evo!Logan wanted and never got are nil. The best we could hope for is retconning him into WWII and a "they totally reunited off-screen" handwave in the present day.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116554: Mar 21st 2020 at 5:13:11 PM

Really curious how they’ll modernize Wolverine’s ensemble.

Hopefully the costumes for the X-Men are a bit less....... bland.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#116556: Mar 21st 2020 at 5:56:59 PM

Last week I bought "How To Paint Characters The Marvel Studios Way", which included a lot of concept artists talking about costuming for the characters. They noted that generally Whedon pushed for the suit designs to be more "comic book-like" (for instance, the Tron Lines on Black Widow in AoU) while the Russos tended to push for more "realistic" designs (Thanos losing his armor as an example.) They also talked about design changes being made from iteration to iteration, like adjusting the shape of Captain America's helmet after his Avengers suit made his head look like an egg, or how they learned that certain designs tended to bring out more impressive postures from the actors while standing.

(And hilariously, a section about how hard it is to draw viewer attention away from a suit's crotch. [lol])

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Mar 21st 2020 at 6:01:09 AM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#116557: Mar 22nd 2020 at 12:45:19 AM

Did it say anything about the actors' responses to their suits? from what I recall Mackie was the most vocal about the suit itself and its lack of color, while the other biggest issues with costumes were more about the makeup.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#116558: Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:02:18 AM

Good question, what suit of marvel have you liked the most so far?.

I like winter soldier to be honest, he look badass.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#116559: Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:11:24 AM

Not too much, since the book mostly talked about the concept art phase, but there were a few things passed from actor to artist and vice versa. Captain America's helmet has had uncovered ears in each suit since Winter Soldier because Chris Evans mentioned they made the helmet too uncomfortable and heavy. Mark Ruffalo and the animators were advised to always have the Hulk's mouth open (except as Professor Hulk). On a non-official note, the lead concept artist for Stephen Strange apologizes for designing such an ornate pattern on his topcoat and cloak, as she's has numerous cosplayers jokingly tell her how much of a pain it is recreate since it can only be sewn by hand.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Mar 22nd 2020 at 1:12:42 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116560: Mar 23rd 2020 at 9:45:43 PM

Random thought, but I'm curious as the possibility to whether Psylocke will be brought in & especially her sibling relationship to Captain Britain.

It's one of those rarer instances of a character being primarily apart of one franchise but also having a connection to a totally different other franchise. It's like how Quicksilver & Scarlet Witch are generally Avengers characters but are typically Mutants & the spawn of Magneto which or how Franklin Richards, son of Mr. Fantastic & Invisible Woman is an actual Mutant which while rarely comes up has never been majorly retconned so he's still qualifies as one despite lack of connection to the X-Men.

Or Hell New Warrior's Firestar & Justice are also Mutants. I like that synergy between the franchises, it connects them in a fun way. It's like how Beast Boy starts out as a member of the Doom Patrol but then moves to the Teen Titans.

As low-likely as it is I hope they adapt the Braddock siblings someday.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#116561: Mar 24th 2020 at 7:02:11 AM

[up] How would they establish the whole Betsy Braddock/Psylocke/Kwannon situation?

It's complicated AF in the comics, so I wouldn't be surprised if they made Betsy half-Asian, half-British and made "Kwannon" a pseudonym or something. The MCU has a habit of compositing characters, like how it made its version of Hela the older sister of Thor and Loki, which is Angela's thing in the comics.

Speaking of mutants, I had an idea of what we could call Deadpool (the Deadpool who had two movies and directly violated his timeline in the name of love)'s home reality: Earth-24601

Earth-24601 works because they used 24601 in Deadpool 2.

Actually, thinking about it, what would be the ideal way to integrate Deadpool? Have the one we've seen get in trouble with the TVA and end up wedging himself into the MCU earth or just come up with a new Deadpool that's basically the same as our Deadpool minus Vanessa and the run-ins with Colossus and Negasonic Teenage Warhead? He could serve as a proper way to establish the Weapon X program.

EDIT: Made a double-realization. I just thought they could make Betsy an adopted sibling for Captain Britain with Kwannon being her birth name, but upon further thinking, I realized making Betsy half-British, half-Asian would mean they'd have to get rid of the twin sibling thing she has with Captain Britain, unless they're fine with making Brian half-Asian as well.

They could just snip out the whole twin thing altogether, say they're adopted siblings and call it a day, but...I don't know.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Mar 24th 2020 at 10:12:29 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#116562: Mar 24th 2020 at 7:21:28 AM

They'll probably go with the original take on Betsy (the twin sister of Captain Britain) and skip the whole Kwannon mind switch thing. The comics reversed it a year ago anyway.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116563: Mar 24th 2020 at 7:57:40 AM

Yeah they’ll just make her a natural-born Asian woman like X-Men: Apocalypse did and either have her be an adopted or step sibling to Brian or just make him Asian too.

It’s really simple. Kwannon‘s a nobody anyway, it’s not like they have to use her.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 24th 2020 at 7:58:40 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#116564: Mar 24th 2020 at 8:02:37 AM

One could say the same of the majority of the MCU characters before the MCU existed. Even if they don't use mind swap they could still bring Kwannon in if only for some diversity. Now that Betsy is back in her original body, they likely don't need to make her Asian when they can use Kwannon. Ideally both should be used.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#116565: Mar 24th 2020 at 8:07:02 AM

It's a complicated situation, because I tend to lean on the side of trying to steer somewhat comics-accurate, and it's a case where being if Brian is white European like he is in the comics then Betsy would need to be as well for the sake of maintaining cohesion, but the easiest solution really would just be to make the both of them half-Asian Britons and ditch Kwannon completely.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116566: Mar 24th 2020 at 8:10:54 AM

Kwannon is a very special-type of nobody as the majority of her existence is just so Betsy can have the appearance & only very recently started actually becoming her own thing. I'm pretty sure most readers still don't even know her name or that it isn't Betsy in the body anymore.

Though yeah it is Betsy's most iconic appearance regardless so they would most likely simply race lift her to give it to her

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 24th 2020 at 8:11:50 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#116567: Mar 24th 2020 at 8:54:34 AM

I don't know. Racebending Betsy (and Brian) into Japanese people and adapting out Kwannon doesn't seem like a good move. It feels like the type of thing that could give the film makers some really bad publicity once someone brings attention to it (and you know that is exactly what will happen if they do). Just make a Captain Britain/Xcalibur movie with Betsy while Kwannon takes Betsy's place on the main X-Men team. Technically she's entitled to it given the majority of Betsy's history on the team was in Kwannon's body anyway. With Betsy being Captain Britain in the comics right now, she probably won't even need to be on the X-Men.

Edit: I suppose a compromise would be to have Kwannon as Brian and Betsy's mother.

Edited by windleopard on Mar 24th 2020 at 8:55:56 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116568: Mar 24th 2020 at 9:06:03 AM

Well they could just have Kwannon be a side assassin character.

Again it’s not like she’s not really regarded as anything substantial by the fandom. I’m pretty sure you can count the characters actual fans on like a single hand. Betsy is all anyone cares about & Kwannon just exists.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 24th 2020 at 9:12:12 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#116569: Mar 24th 2020 at 9:16:56 AM

Some times it's not about how many fans you have. Some times it can be about optics. People were criticizing the Betsy/Kwannon mess for years before Marvel finally corrected it and I'm not sure how many of those critics actually liked Kwannon as a character.

Look at it this way: if Kwannon and Betsy both appear in the MCU, they are both guaranteed to be well received meaning you now have two characters that are popular thanks to the MCU (and other adaptations in Betys's case). Everyone wins.

Edited by windleopard on Mar 24th 2020 at 9:21:22 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116570: Mar 24th 2020 at 9:30:14 AM

Though decompisting Betsy & Kwannon by giving them separate roles rather ruins the original point I made about Psylocke.

As in a cool part about Betsy is how while she's primarily an X-Men she also has a major relationship with a hero completely unrelated to the X-Men. It helps make the world feel bigger & I don't feel that's worth losing.

So I guess the best option is to race lift Betsy & give Kwannon something to do.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#116571: Mar 24th 2020 at 9:34:59 AM

One way or another, having Betsy steal Kwannon's body and literally become a white woman wearing the skin of an Asian woman would definitely be a mistake. Only way to f*ck that up harder would be to cast ScarJo in yellowface as Kwannon.

Some things shouldn't be comics-accurate because the comics don't exactly have the best history when it comes to representation.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 24th 2020 at 10:35:46 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#116572: Mar 24th 2020 at 9:41:09 AM

The X-Men films already cast Olivia Munn (who is of Vietnamese descent) as Psylocke, and I don't recall people complaining about adapting out Kwannon or anything like that.

Granted, there were a lot of problems with X-Men: Apocalypse, but I think a Race Lift like that wouldn't be too controversial.

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#116573: Mar 24th 2020 at 9:51:37 AM

[up][up]Case in point with that second paragraph: the Hand. I'm watching through the second season of Daredevil and o lawd I see the problem. So lame.

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Mar 24th 2020 at 9:55:45 AM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#116574: Mar 24th 2020 at 12:42:44 PM

Psylocke was actually one of the more enjoyable parts of that film, and most people seem to share that opinion.

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#116575: Mar 24th 2020 at 12:58:48 PM

??? She was barely in the damn film and just left with little fanfare.

Just Makima.

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