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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
There's a specific difference there that I think you're missing.
The question was never if Marvel could use - say - Luke Cage. The question was whether Marvel can use the specific version of Luke Cage of the Netflix shows, the events within, etc.
If Netflix still owns those shows, then the answer is "no," because that's how rights ownership and licensing works. On the flipside, Netflix won't ever be able to make a new season of any of those shows without Marvel's permission, because the deal that birthed those shows is over.
So as I said, Marvel can absolutely use Luke or Daredevil or whoever, they just have to reintroduce them, and make it clear they're not the same as the ones that Netflix owns.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 19th 2020 at 10:55:35 AM
Do you have a source that is how it works? I could definitely believe that, but are we sure Marvel didn't specify in their licensing that they maintain the rights to use the Netflix version of the character if they so desire? I wouldn't be surprised if they did so, and I doubt Netflix would be against it as long as the licensing was favorable to them otherwise.
Edited by FGHIK on Mar 19th 2020 at 12:58:51 PM
It's definitely possible that they had a special deal like that, but until they tell us so I wouldn't assume it first.
Honestly, that's just how the law works (Here's a briefer
- the short of it is that a license is a temporary transfer of copyright, and while having that copyright anything made by the licenser is subject to its own rights under copyright while not having an effect on the larger property: it's weird and complicated). They would have had to have had special circumstances for it to be otherwise.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:14:35 AM
They could still cast the same actors in the roles, if they wanted to. The problem would be that they couldn't reference anything that happened in the Netflix series (unless it happened in the comics first).
For instance, Jessica Jones and Patricia Walker being foster sisters? That was entirely an invention of Netflix. So if Netflix retains full ownership of that series, then any appearance by either of those characters in the MCU would not be allowed to reference or recreate that relationship.
Edited by RavenWilder on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:12:31 AM
Gimme happy Patsy Walker who runs a super temp agency and may have a thing for She-Hulk.
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:10:58 AM
Yeah... while I liked the arc Hellcat had in Jessica Jones (I enjoy both Face–Heel Turn and Heel–Face Turn stories), I wouldn't mind the character showing up with a clean slate.
Or Jessica herself, at that.
I still think the New Avengers is the best place the MCU could go from here, and we'll need Jess, Luke, and Danny for that.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:17:24 AM
Netflix doesn't own those versions of the characters. Netflix owns the footage that was made and that is all.
By the way, the production company for the Netflix Marvel shows was still Marvel Television and ABC Studios. Netflix was only the distributor. So they might not even own the footage — Marvel might actually be able to get it back, just like Disney did with Clone Wars Season 6.
Edited by alliterator on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:30:32 AM
No, that isn't how the law works.
Disney doesn't own the rights to use any incarnation of anything they've licensed out in any way they choose. That's a very incorrect interpretation.
And there's a specific reason the law works that way: it's unfair to the licenser, and leaves them with no rights as to the thing they created.
Furthermore, literally every single issue with rights - film rights, tv rights, etc - would cease to exist if this was the case.
Herein lies the primary logical problem: Netflix' Luke Cage is part an parcel with the show, as a character developed within that show's events and writing. There is a legal difference between Luke Cage, the franchised and trademarked character, and Luke Cage the licensed character he appears in X or Y adaptation.
This means that Marvel can then make their own incarnations of the character in the medium that was licensed (in this case, tv and film) without running afoul of the given license. This doesn't mean that Marvel retroactively gains ownership of everything that was made while the license was active.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:38:31 AM
Or, to go with the opposite: in the '80s, Marvel made several licensed comics for Hasbro, such as Rom Spaceknight and The Micronauts. Once the license was over, those characters reverted back to Hasbro. Sure, Hasbro couldn't use the characters and concepts Marvel themselves created, but the main character Marvel had licensed? Absolutely. The IDW Rom comic had Rom be almost exactly like how he was in Marvel's comic, even looking exactly the same.
Edited by alliterator on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:40:31 AM
This got ninja'd, but see, again, Disney only gaining the rights to all of the Spider-Man shows made under Fox after they literally purchased the entire company.
Okay, so how would you differentiate? Maybe through some sort of legal caveat?
As for Rom, as far as I'm aware the rights are still split. If Marvel is using him again, then Hasbro might have cut them a deal.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:43:53 AM
Ah, okay.
ROM's story is owned by Marvel, but his design, and those of his supporting cast, are owned by Hasbro.
So Marvel can use the story they wrote, but Hasbro kept the designs/names/etc they created.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:43:16 AM
I think this is where you are confusing people: if Marvel Studios make a Daredevil movie starring Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock looking and acting exactly the same as the Daredevil show, I consider that to be the same character, no matter if he is able to mention the previous show or not (not, since the show is owned by Netflix).
Looks the same, acts the same = same character.
But I think you believe that same character = has to reference the show itself. Which it can't.
I just linked to an explanation of that situation.
To reiterate: Marvel owns the story they wrote for ROM. Hasbro owns the design, the names, and the overall concept, which they created.
This is because copyright law is always on the side of the creator, unless its work for hire. If you create something, it belongs to you. If it's under license, you don't own the property, but you do own what you created while under that license.
The alternative is mercenary and unfair on the half of the licensee, and thus unlawful.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:45:41 AM
And I just explained where the confusion lay.
But let me explain it again: if Marvel wanted to, they could hire Charlie Cox to play Matt Murdock/Daredevil and have him play it exactly like he did on Netflix, as long as he didn't reference any of the events that happened on Netflix. This is entirely legal and within Marvel's copyright (once the two years have passed).
Edited by alliterator on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:47:51 AM
I mean, that's more in line with what I've been saying than what you've been saying, but since we're now suddenly making the same point... okay?
Conversation over, then?
Not really. "Work for hire" is specified in contract, and is distinct from licensing. It has to be, otherwise you run into problems like how Sega lost the rights to the soundtracks to the first few Sonic games for a while.
This.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:53:09 AM
Edited by alliterator on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:51:15 AM
Since I'm pretty sure the last page or so speaks for itself, and arguing about arguing is just going to derail, I'd like to repeat: conversation over?
Back onto the subject of what they could do, besides New Avengers - which I really, really want - I wouldn't mind a Luke Cage / Iron Fist film, especially now that Feige is off that "street level can't carry films" kick he was on years ago.
A hardboiled buddy crime superhero flick sounds fantastic.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:55:55 AM
There's also the concept of Luke & Jess' marriage with child.
Chances are had they gotten married in the Netflix-verse their marriage would prolly suffer a shit-ton of blows due to the setting's brutal nature while with the more relatively lighthearted MCU their marriage will most likely be less strenuous & more fun.
Edited by slimcoder on Mar 19th 2020 at 11:59:08 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."![]()
Preferably with afros.
On everybody.
I think a Heroes for Hire movie series would be able to connect all of that, come to think of it.
Have everyone in H 4 H together in a single ensemble, with individual relationships that change over the course of their movies.
The big issue going forward is the same issue that hit Jessica in the comics, without writers specifically making sure she's got a strong voice in the stories she's in, she tends to be written as a supporter. But the general viewing audience would definitely see her as a protagonist after her big tv debut, which hopefully would inspire Marvel Studio to keep her as one going forward.
The last thing they want to do is just end Jessica's character with "Luke's wife." Having them as co-protagonists in an ensemble series would ensure they don't do that.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Mar 20th 2020 at 12:03:28 PM
Ooh, but the Purple Children might work. A movie where Jessica and Luke team up to save the Purple Man's Children from using their powers and end up having a kid of their own would actually be pretty good.

Yeah, I recall hearing that Charlie Cox had a stipulation in his contract that allowed him to appear in an MCU movie should he desire. I believe he wanted to be in Civil War, but the production was already so far along that they couldn't slot him in.
If that's true, I'd assume the other Netflix actors have similar clauses in their contracts.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Mar 19th 2020 at 12:58:12 PM