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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116251: Mar 8th 2020 at 5:42:00 PM

Man does Hamill know how to play acclaimed villains.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#116252: Mar 8th 2020 at 6:15:38 PM

What was funny was that in the show, Hobgoblin actually showed up before Green Goblin.

My various fanfics.
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#116253: Mar 8th 2020 at 6:27:59 PM

Which in a way really helped to build up the Green Goblin. When he shows up he feels like a bigger deal, the "true Goblin" who's way more dangerous.

The Black Suit saga of the show also deserves a obvious shout-out, given it is iconic enough to eclipse the original story take and become the version of the black suit saga. That's worthy of props.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#116254: Mar 8th 2020 at 6:30:36 PM

It also helps that it's easier to adapt than Secret Wars for, well, a variety of reasons.

My various fanfics.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#116255: Mar 8th 2020 at 6:37:02 PM

I think it was partially the snapshot effect of the show adapting from a mindset of what was current in the comics and Hobgoblin was the active goblin

But it did let Green Goblin be an escalation both in menace and in personal connection

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116256: Mar 8th 2020 at 6:39:04 PM

Man I'd love to see Roderick Kingsley here.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 8th 2020 at 6:42:23 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#116257: Mar 8th 2020 at 8:15:30 PM

I think I like Hobgoblin a lot more than Green Goblin, and really want to see him in the MCU.

The concept of a guy who runs a “supervillain for lease” program, renting out his established identity and weaponry to a cadre of wannabes, mercenaries and the occasional hypnotized patsy, making it nearly impossible to pin him down for the crimes, is so fun.

You could even make it a superhero action / mystery thing. Who Is Hobgoblin?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#116258: Mar 8th 2020 at 8:21:29 PM

They did that.

The identity of the original Hobgoblin was a big thing back in the day.

Though when the original writer left, they claimed some other dude was him, until that writer came back and revealed the real identity of the Hobgoblin.

The selling other villain identities thing was something that came much later though.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#116259: Mar 8th 2020 at 8:24:07 PM

Man this still hits hard & I don't think I ever actually watched the show.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#116260: Mar 8th 2020 at 8:39:40 PM

Roderick Kingsley essentially started a supervillain franchise in-universe. The only reason he ever dons the Hobgoblin suit himself anymore is to maintain the identity's cred. After all, people wouldn't pay to be Hobgoblin if the Hobgoblin identity was considered a joke. Hence why he went out of his first retirement to kill off Jason Macendale for being such an incompetent Hobgoblin.

Edited by M84 on Mar 8th 2020 at 11:45:16 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#116261: Mar 8th 2020 at 8:45:34 PM

Jason Macendale Hobgoblin was hilariously inept.

He had the Hobgoblin killed, he thought. Really he killed the patsy that Kingsley wanted to be killed.

But then Jason got his ass kicked by spider-man so much. Just so, so much. So he went to go bully some goblin secrets out of Harry Osborn. Who suited up as a sucky Green Goblin and fought him instead. So then he tried to sell his soul to some Inferno demons for powers and the demons didn't want his crappy soul but gave him powers for the shiggles. But he still sucked with demon powers, so much that the demon powers split off from him to be their own guy, Demogoblin. And then he decided he'd become a cyborg but he still sucked so he got thrown into jail and unlike a lot of other villains didn't manage to break out.

It got so embarrassing that Kingsley unretired just to shoot him in the face.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#116262: Mar 8th 2020 at 8:54:07 PM

As the In the Hood trope page noted, Macendale couldn't even get the look right.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#116263: Mar 8th 2020 at 8:59:48 PM

The best part of it all is Hamill Hobgoblin is Jason Macendale, making it a very obvious case of Adaptational Badass.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#116264: Mar 8th 2020 at 9:42:36 PM

The irony is the head writer of the show hated the Hobgoblin and only had to use him because of a toy line.

"I, too, was upset that we had to introduce the Hobgoblin first," said Semper. "It was a dumb thing to do — so it won't surprise you if I tell you that I had nothing whatsoever to with that decision. As I've mentioned before in interviews, I was not the first writer-producer hired to run Spider-Man. I was preceded by someone who had ultimately been fired before I got there."

"When I arrived on the show, very little creative work had been done and I threw out what little there was and started over from scratch," said Semper. "But there was only one creative decision which my predecessor had made that I had to live with. For some strange reason known only to him, he decided to use the Hobgoblin as Spidey's main villain instead of the Green Goblin! Of course, when I got there, I informed Avi Arad that this was a stupid idea. I explained why - the Hobgoblin is essentially a useless character - and he agreed with me."

Unfortunately it was too late to scrap the Hobgoblin from the first season of Spider-Man: The Animated Series. It wasn't due to the production of the series, but the production of a toyline tieing into the Hobgoblin character.

"Then, a few days later, Avi came back and rather sheepishly explained that because of my predecessor's choice, he had already made a decision to roll out a toy line around the Hobgoblin," said Semper. "Now it was too late to stop the toys from being mass-produced. All the while that Avi was telling me this, he was cursing the very existence of my predecessor, because even Avi now realized what a dumb decision it had been. So I had to do the Hobgoblin first, or else Avi would have lost millions of dollars on useless Hobgoblin toys that no kid wanted. As it was, there were still plenty of unsold Hobgoblin toys on the shelves at Toys R Us that Christmas. Even with our two-part episode, nobody really liked the character that much."

This hatred even manifested in a Take That! moment towards Mackendale when he and the Green Goblin (whom Mackendale didn't know was Norman Osborn) meet for the first time, with the Green Goblin referring to the former as an impostor (even though Hobgoblin appeared first) and the Green Goblin is depicted as easily being the Hobgoblin's superior in terms of weaponry and powers.

Edited by windleopard on Mar 8th 2020 at 9:45:26 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#116265: Mar 8th 2020 at 9:44:52 PM

That's very hurtful, Semper

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#116266: Mar 8th 2020 at 9:48:29 PM

In fact, the Hobgoblin being a Gold Digger in that show might have been a more subtle way of throwing shade at the character.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#116267: Mar 8th 2020 at 9:50:25 PM

He says that nobody in the audience really liked the character very much but from here it sounds like people had fond memories of him.

Edit: Mark Hamill probably helped a lot.

Edited by Bocaj on Mar 8th 2020 at 12:58:01 PM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#116269: Mar 8th 2020 at 9:59:01 PM

He, Shocker, and Kingpin are the only villains I remember from that show, so yeah.

The legend has returned.
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#116270: Mar 8th 2020 at 10:00:11 PM

Is there any particular reason a character's toys wouldn't sell even if audiences liked him?

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#116271: Mar 8th 2020 at 10:03:48 PM

Its very hard to find toy sale statistics to even know whether he's accurate or not and he clearly has a pet to peeve with the character even after all this time.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#116272: Mar 8th 2020 at 10:19:22 PM

I'm not sure what Sember's big issue was with the Hobgoblin. I guess he just thought he was a Replacement Scrappy for the Green Goblin.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Mar 8th 2020 at 1:20:56 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#116273: Mar 8th 2020 at 10:23:05 PM

One thing here...so thanos is the mad titan, as in...our titan or another planet call titan?.

because is the first that sound like a huge frige logic for me.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#116274: Mar 8th 2020 at 10:24:54 PM

In the comics it was our planet Titan. Thanos was born on Saturn's moon because the Titans were Eternals from Earth that decided to move into space.

In the movies, Titan is a planet outside the solar system that just happens to be called Titan.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#116275: Mar 8th 2020 at 11:03:31 PM

In the comics, Titanian Eternals were also on average a lot weaker than the Physical God status of the Eternals who stayed on Earth. Thanos was an exception due to a mutation that made him look like a Deviant.

Also note that since Eternals are a subset of humans, this means that comics Thanos is human.

Edited by M84 on Mar 9th 2020 at 2:04:13 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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