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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#115851: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:28:11 AM

Well, the current criteria is that a film has to be more than a decade old. So, only Iron Man 1 has a chance at this moment. And I think it has a good shot out all the MCU films.

Outside of that, I think The Avengers (2012), Guardians of the Galaxy, Black Panther (2018) and maybe Avengers: Endgame have the potential to be preserved.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#115852: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:28:56 AM

Imagine archaeologists of the future coming across Avengers: Endgame without Avengers: Infinity War. They'd have no clue what was going on.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#115853: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:34:23 AM

Now I want that to happen

Also the idea of someone trying to reconstruct what our time period was like just based on preserved movies is hilarious

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#115854: Feb 21st 2020 at 7:35:53 AM

I mean, we're just blue-skying. The age thing probably shouldn't matter when it comes to hypotheticals.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#115855: Feb 21st 2020 at 8:40:17 AM

I'm watching this rap battle between The Joker and Pennywise. Next to it in my suggested videos list is Thanos vs Oppenheimer. And this gets me thinking about how Hulk lost to Thanos in Infinity War which, not so coincidentally, happens to be in the suggested as well.

And I think - I wonder how Hulk could lose so easily when Carol just bodied Thanos in seconds? What would a fight between Hulk and Carol be like? Eh, she'd probably wreck him because that's just how this universe works.

And then I come back to everyone's favorite point - where the frack was Carol during any of Hulk's rampages? Why didn't Fury call her when he destroyed Brooklyn?

The usual counterpoint is "the situation wasn't bad enough yet to call in Carol" but the problem with that, besides collateral damage and civilian casualties, is that there was literally no other force on Earth that could stop Hulk at that point in time besides the Abomination, and he was not a good guy by that point.

It just seems like a bunch of situations would have been less catastrophic if Fury had just pressed the damned pager that apparently alerts her.

Edited by Soble on Feb 21st 2020 at 11:21:15 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#115856: Feb 21st 2020 at 8:44:10 AM

I like to think that he paged her like every time but the situation resolved before she got there

Look at how the entire time travel plot goes off before she gets back

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#115857: Feb 21st 2020 at 8:47:30 AM

And then I come back to everyone's favorite point - where the frack was Carol during any of Hulk's rampages? Why didn't Fury call her when he destroyed Brooklyn?
Because they were over in less time than it took for Carol to get there? I mean, it's implied that Fury's signal has been going for several days before Carol shows up and the Hulk's rampages never last more than an hour, so why bother?

never watched all of Captain Marvel so I don't know the details, but I assume Carol's departure was due to some "greater responsibility to the universe at large because of Carol's connection to the Kree or whatever."
She wanted to help find and protect the Skrull refugees from the Kree and help the Skrulls find a home, not just because they needed it, but in order to atone for her own actions while brainwashed by the Kree.

But I mean, who gives a f-ck? That's all off-screen. That'd be like if Superman left the Earth to go and...
What? Well, this is the most cynical and easily debunked argument I've ever read. Hey, why should I care about what goes on other countries? They aren't America and I live in America!

Oh and Superman has left Earth many times in order to protect other planets and other races, so...that argument is bupkiss, too.

EDIT: Ah, you deleted that argument, good. As for your other one:

The usual counterpoint is "the situation wasn't bad enough yet to call in Carol" but the problem with that, besides collateral damage and civilian casualties, is that there was literally no other force on Earth that could stop Hulk at that point in time besides the Abomination, and he was not a good guy by that point.
Iron Man took down the Hulk in Age of Ultron, so this is also wrong.

Edited by alliterator on Feb 21st 2020 at 8:49:42 AM

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#115858: Feb 21st 2020 at 8:57:40 AM

As for how Hulk lost to Thanos while Carol basically No-Selled everything he threw at her until he sucker-punched her with an infinity stone, the reason is simply that our favourite green giant is nowhere near Carol's power level. MCU Hulk does not seem to gain strength as he gets angrier, so when he finds himself pitted against someone close to his strength level (though Thanos seems to be physically stronger as well) and with a much better knowledge of fighting, it is quite logical that he loses.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#115859: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:09:26 AM

I think they did as good a job as they could of accounting for why Carol never appeared in the MCU prior.

The area of space she patrols is mindbogglingly vast and she's not the sort of person to consider problems on other planets to not be her problems. She's traveling across galaxies being a one-woman Avengers team for thousands of planets. At any given time she might be in a different galaxy dealing with a problem that has several orders of magnitude more lives on the line.

So sure, she could of easily defeated the Abomination. But the Abomination was only really active for an hour or two and was never a serious threat to anyone outside of a few city blocks. That's not even enough time for her to reliably get back to Earth, and that's assuming she wasn't busy preventing a planetary cataclysm or something on that scale.

That all being said, the MCU has reached a point where we will have to make allowances for different characters not showing up. If anything the sorcerers of Kamer Taj are a more egregious case of Superman Stays Out of Gotham since they are Earth-based, can travel anywhere in the world instantly, and have the numbers to ensure they could almost always spare at least a could sorcerers to deal with most major crises.

Heck even contacting them is easy since they don't eschew the use of technology. You could literally DM @DrStephenStrange on twitter.

Edited by Falrinn on Feb 21st 2020 at 9:13:41 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#115860: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:13:25 AM

The MCU just needs to start picking up the comics explanation of what I call "The Law of Constant Evil", i.e if a super character doesn't show up when he should, it's because he's busy with his own problems. So, the Sorcerers of Kamar-Taj didn't show up because they were stuck fighting a Eldritch Abomination in another realm of existence, Cap'n' never showed up because he was fighting some HYDRA cell somewhere, e.t.c.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#115861: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:14:23 AM

If anything the sorcerers of Kamer Taj are a more egregious case of Superman Stays out of Gotham since they are Earth-based, can travel anywhere in the world instantly, and have the numbers to ensure they could almost always spare at least a could sorcerers to deal with most major crises.
Which why I like the fact that they retconned the Ancient One into the Battle of New York. She was there, she was probably just invisible to everyone else, but still helping.

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#115862: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:15:58 AM

[nja][up][up] The Kamar-Taj sorcerers were somewhat addressed in Endgame when we see the Ancient One actively fighting against the Chitaurii in 2012.

The thing is that most crises that occurred in the Avengers movies tended to be happening over a short span of time, or be kept under wraps from the general populace, so it is possible that the various other superheroes simply did not hear about them or did not have the time to come to help.

Edited by C105 on Feb 21st 2020 at 6:20:48 PM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#115863: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:27:59 AM

[up][up] Agreed, and that definitely helps the situation.

In general what I'm saying is that it's often more of a reach to explain why the Sorcerers didn't show up to deal with X crises then why Carol didn't even if we remove the first Avengers movie from the equation.

It's not that either question is unexplainable, because they can be explained, it's that it doesn't make a lot of sense to single out Carol when it comes to these questions.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#115864: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:31:29 AM

Yeah, the hate-on for Carol seems to still be eating people's brains. "Why didn't X participate in Y?" is a relevant question from a world-building perspective, but from a writing perspective it's kind of puerile. "Because we didn't want X to be in Y," is the obvious, logical, and correct answer. It is another reason why I love Spider-Man: Far From Home, though: it addresses and answers the question In-Universe.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 21st 2020 at 12:35:16 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#115865: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:37:25 AM

Hulk is strong, yes. But Captain Marvel has cosmic energy flowing through her veins, which gives her the advantage over Thanos' brute strength. That's why Thanos resorted to fight cosmic power with cosmic power.

Plus, Hulk was beaten by the Hulk-Buster, a physical weapon that's design to literally beat Hulk into submission. Plus, Thor would have beaten Hulk with his lightning powers had the Grandmaster not rigged the game.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#115866: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:40:09 AM

For the canonical physically strongest character in the MCU, it seems that Hulk gets Worfed a lot.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 21st 2020 at 12:40:38 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#115867: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:43:48 AM

[up][up] By the way, I never quite understood how the Thor vs Hulk fight ended in Ragnarok. We cut from Hulk jumping on Thor as he is incapacitated by the control collar to Thor being a guest in Hulk's room. Did I miss some explanation there?

[up] Hulk got Worfed mainly in Infinity War, to show that Thanos was a threat (and to set up the merging with Banner, but it's too bad that was cut from IW). He was not quite himself when the Hulkbuster armour got rid of him, so it may not entirely count.

Edited by C105 on Feb 21st 2020 at 6:45:18 PM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#115868: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:44:29 AM

You mean why doesn't Hulk kill Thor? Probably because he doesn't want to.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#115869: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:45:41 AM

But why did the Gamemaster decide not to kill Thor?

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#115870: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:45:48 AM

"Because superheroes lead busy lives" is, and has always been, the answer to "Why didn't X participate in Y".

"When Doc Ock started shooting Death Star lasers at Cincinnati, where was Iron Man?!" He was in Philadelphia trying to stop the Mandarin from turning all humans into robot chickens. Where the f*ck was Spider-Man while that was going on, HUH?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 21st 2020 at 10:46:00 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#115871: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:46:19 AM

[up][up]Respect? Guilt for cheating? Does it matter?

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 21st 2020 at 12:46:29 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#115872: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:46:20 AM

[up][up][up] Losing his second most profitable fighter is bad for business.

Edited by Gaon on Feb 21st 2020 at 9:48:59 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#115873: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:48:06 AM

Standard Hulk gets plenty of worfing,but thats he's regular Hulk,there are always bigger Hulks

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#115874: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:48:11 AM

I assume to keep his top fighter and crowd drawing attraction happy

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#115875: Feb 21st 2020 at 9:49:52 AM

For the canonical physically strongest character in the MCU, it seems that Hulk gets Worfed a lot.
Which means he isn't the canonical physically strongest character in the MCU.


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