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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#115501: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:36:48 PM

Is he held up as a moral beacon though.

While people acknowledge he loves his sons, we all still point out that even when trying, he was a shitty dad.

That he basically did everything wrong when it came to his family and how he built his kingdom.

Pretty much everyone believes Odin buggered things up to high hell, with the lone exception of Thor.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#115502: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:38:00 PM

I don’t think that’s happened with the character.

At least not here which makes the constant complaining about him kinda annoying.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 11th 2020 at 4:39:09 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#115503: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:44:10 PM

Pretty much every discussion here with Odin has most people agreeing that, yeah, he really was kind of a shitty person even if he did atone towards the end of his life. It's chasing windmills to suggest otherwise.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#115504: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:44:18 PM

Because I'm tired of him being held up as a moral beacon and an example of benevolent leadership
Which nobody in this thread has done.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#115505: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:53:26 PM

I think the clear factor is moreso that Ayasugi clearly signs with Loki in the moral calculus of the situation, so the game is to make Odin sound worse to make Loki sound better. That's the best explanation I have for such a dark reading of everything Odin does and the claim that people hold up Odin as some sort of moral beacon.

Like taking Odin, who just lost his wife and is currently enduring a hopeless siege, talking about "killing all the dark elves" currently trying to wipe out Asgard from the map and trying to equate that somehow with some sort of genocidal campaign.

Odin is pretty bad. He's done a lot of bad things, but he eventually changed, the jury being out on how much. Loki, meanwhile, is directly responsible for two attempted genocides and indirectly responsible for an actual one (the destruction of the Dwarves). There's not a single moral aspect in which Loki outdoes Odin.

They're both kinda shit, but in the end, I think Loki's way worse and less remorseful.

Edited by Gaon on Feb 11th 2020 at 4:55:51 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#115506: Feb 11th 2020 at 4:58:28 PM

Eh. In the end, Loki at least does try to make up for it, rescuing the Asgardians from Hela and trying to kill Thanos. I mean, he doesn't succeed in that last part, but he at least tries.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#115507: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:06:12 PM

speaking of Gugu Mbatha-Raw

I bet she's going to play Verity Wills.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Feb 11th 2020 at 5:11:47 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#115508: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:13:18 PM

As for Odin, some people make mistakes and they want to do better later in life. Nothing wrong with that.

Edited by Beatman1 on Feb 11th 2020 at 8:16:14 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#115509: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:15:09 PM

And sometimes,it's a little too lateto apologise for the colonialism so you hide it under another painting..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#115510: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:15:22 PM

[up][up]For those who do not understand what he answered, I originally wrote "I don't understand why Marvel hates redheads.", but decides to delete it to avoid a fight in the comments.

Edit: And apparently he also edited it, the irony.

—-

For my part, I would like her to play a character who is afro-american in the original comics, but most likely she will be a redhead with a Race Lift

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Feb 11th 2020 at 5:19:32 AM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#115511: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:19:44 PM

I have no interest in starting a fight, so let’s go back to Odin and the nature of redemption.

I do find that for some people, it’s hard to forgive, so they try to make sure their kids don’t make the same mistakes. Is that fair?

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#115512: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:20:46 PM

Evil Parents Want Good Kids

It is also possible that the eight kingdoms used to be a horrible place and the only way to make it a better place was to undertake a conquest campaign.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Feb 11th 2020 at 5:24:45 AM

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#115513: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:26:18 PM

Canon holds Odin up as a moral example for Thor, as his spirit advisor when Thor is at his lowest, saying the perfect insightful things to get Thor back on his feet and winning the day. It's unearned since he was never really punished for his misdeeds and the supposed change of heart that gives him a pass for them is fairly hollow when you look at his shown behavior. And yes, I'm tired of Loki getting condemned for things that Odin is given an implicit pass for and blamed for things that are actually Odin's fault, like Odin's death and Hela's release, and any gestures he makes that could be considered redemptive dismissed because they're self-serving (when Odin's redemptive gestures are also just as self-serving as evidenced by him being the beloved wise king for most of his life).

[up] [quoteblock] It is also possible that the eight kingdoms used to be a horrible place and the only way to make it a better place was to undertake a conquest campaign. [/quoteblock]

That... would be a horrible, horrible message if you're trying to go for any real world applicability, which Ragnarok was trying to do. It can far too easily be read as apologia for European colonialism.

Edited by Ayasugi on Feb 11th 2020 at 8:28:23 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#115514: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:27:41 PM

Who are you arguing with here?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#115515: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:28:31 PM

Yeah, this sounds like projecting viewpoints onto us that we never expressed but which are more commonplace in drama imported from elsewhere.

[down] Not one person has suggested that here. At the most charitable, I think you're confusing us for some other place.

Edited by AlleyOop on Feb 11th 2020 at 8:50:32 AM

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#115516: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:30:29 PM

I'm arguing with the people who say that Odin changed substantially, which a lot of people here are doing. I'm pointing out all the ways in which he hasn't changed.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#115517: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:31:58 PM

But no one is arguing over that!

You are addressing non existent arguments

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#115518: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:36:32 PM

So...much...straw.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#115519: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:37:25 PM

There's so much straw three little pigs have moved in

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#115520: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:38:42 PM

[up]*7 And when I mention colonialism? I just said that the eight kingdoms used to be so horrible, that the conquest was seen as a necessary evil.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Feb 11th 2020 at 5:41:31 AM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#115521: Feb 11th 2020 at 5:40:18 PM

[up]That’s pretty much one of the main justifications of it: “this place is horrible, I must make it better, even through conquest.”

Also, is there anything to support that idea?

Edited by fredhot16 on Feb 11th 2020 at 5:40:40 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#115523: Feb 11th 2020 at 7:47:05 PM

According to GWW, Marvel Studios is developing a Agents of Atlas series as a follow up to Shang-Chi[1]

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#115524: Feb 11th 2020 at 7:51:04 PM

Now I feel like propping up Odin as one of the greatest dads in the MCU & ever in general.

Right up there next to Scott & Thanos. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
FGHIK Since: Aug, 2013
#115525: Feb 11th 2020 at 7:55:56 PM

Well, Scott at least tries to be a good dad, even if his criminal and superhero activities make that difficult.


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