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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#115001: Jan 30th 2020 at 9:55:11 AM

I think he might’ve deleted it because I don’t see it on his Instagram, but apparently Sebastian Stan shared a post from a fan complaining about Steve leaving Bucky behind in Endgame.

John Boyega welcomes him to the “actors ticked off at their own franchise” club.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 30th 2020 at 9:55:28 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#115002: Jan 30th 2020 at 10:00:04 AM

I don't see what he's complaining about.

His character did the same thing.

End of the line? More like fell off a train.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#115003: Jan 30th 2020 at 11:10:57 AM

I rechecked; nope, he hasn’t deleted it, it’s his Instagram story.

Even saltier considering he’s still employed with Marvel. surprised

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 30th 2020 at 11:11:55 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#115004: Jan 30th 2020 at 1:30:58 PM

Considering what a big deal they made out of Cap coming to grips with living in the present, the way they handled his conclusion in Endgame was pretty damn rough and ass-backwards. Combine that with how Civil War made a huge deal of how important it was that Steve got Bucky back, and how upset he was about Bucky dying in Infinity War.

So for Endgame to give Cap no real emotional reaction towards reviving someone who was like family to him, before jumping back to the past because oops we retconned that he was completely engrossed with Peggy all this time and all of his other character depth vanished into thin air, feels like they just cut and run on his most engaging Myth Arc so they could shelve him once Chris Evans' contract ran out.

I don't think Stan ships it romantically like the OP does (for the love of god, as much as I ship it too I know it was never going to be canon nor was it intentional bait, get over it), and he seems to be a much bigger fan of Bucky/Natasha. but even through a completely platonic lens it's a poor resolution to that relationship, and dismissive of Bucky's agency as a character.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jan 30th 2020 at 4:34:55 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#115005: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:04:53 PM

I mean, I believe the writers confirmed that Steve told Bucky what he was going to do before he did the Time Jump. In my headcanon, he actually discussed it with Bucky and Bucky told him that he was completely okay with Steve finding Peggy in the past and leaving him in the present.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#115006: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:06:15 PM

Also Old Steve is in the present now, presumably.

He can still hang out with Bucky.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#115007: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:06:38 PM

[up][up]I’m kind of hoping that’s an early line in Falcon and Winter Soldier. "He knew, and I told him to go for it."

Edited by Beatman1 on Jan 30th 2020 at 5:06:47 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#115008: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:10:32 PM

[up][up][up] That's true and easy to figure out even before the Word of God, but it's still dissatisfying on a narrative level, and is a likely reason for why Stan was upset, as it would've been interesting material for him to work through and to watch unfold onscreen. Also just because Bucky accepts it doesn't mean he's necessarily happy about it, and he isn't.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jan 30th 2020 at 5:12:49 AM

C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#115009: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:12:00 PM

Rewatching Endgame, it comes off as pretty obvious that Bucky is aware of what Cap is going to do.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#115010: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:12:42 PM

[up][up]That could be a powerful arc in the spinoff show. What people say in the heat of the moment, with the pressure on them, and what they would say if they had time to think about it, be it hours, days or even weeks, is often quite different.

Of course, that’s if they talk about it.

Edited by Beatman1 on Jan 30th 2020 at 5:15:09 AM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#115011: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:18:19 PM

Wait, why couldn’t Bucky go with Steve?

(Still hasn’t watched that movie yet.)

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#115012: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:19:02 PM

In a strange way, both characters are bearing different legacies.

Bucky's inherited the role of Steve Rogers, Man Out of Time, adrift in a world he never knew.

Sam's inherited the role of Captain America, Paragon of Virtue, striving to uphold the ideal of what the American Way was supposed to be.

I hope the showrunners do something with this.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 30th 2020 at 3:21:39 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#115013: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:21:22 PM

[up][up] Cause he couldn't.

Factors that will go unmentioned lead to Steve having to do something that didn't require anyone else's assistance.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#115014: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:34:43 PM

Also, that the writers believe Steve told Bucky doesn't mean they told Sebastian Stan, considering how often the actors were filming things that they didn't know what was happening.

Also Old Steve is in the present now, presumably. He can still hang out with Bucky.

If FFH's In Memoriam opening is to be believed, Old Cap is dead.

Wait, why couldn’t Bucky go with Steve? (Still hasn’t watched that movie yet.)

No reason why he couldn't. The Avengers sent just Steve through the time machine because that way it'd be easier for him to cut and run from a plot perspective. tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 30th 2020 at 2:38:13 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#115015: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:49:35 PM

[up] I always interpreted the beginning to suggest that the Avengers never told to public what happened to Steve, so everyone assumes he either died during the fight against Thanos or went MIA when delivering the Infinity Stones back.

I'm not sure if Steve actually remained in the main timeline after the events of Endgame or whether he was there all along or...

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#115016: Jan 30th 2020 at 2:51:36 PM

Cue M84 cursing about time travel.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#115017: Jan 30th 2020 at 3:19:59 PM

multiple times lines you guise!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#115018: Jan 30th 2020 at 3:25:06 PM

Wrong thread sorry.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 30th 2020 at 3:25:30 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#115019: Jan 30th 2020 at 3:26:27 PM

[nja] Already addressed. tongue

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 30th 2020 at 6:29:14 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#115020: Jan 30th 2020 at 6:02:24 PM

Oh geez, time travel. My old nemesis...

I mean, I was already prepared for time travel to be a thing...but the way Endgame did it was just a huge mess. An entertaining mess at times, but still a mess.

Time travel sucks.

Edited by M84 on Jan 30th 2020 at 10:04:24 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#115021: Jan 30th 2020 at 6:05:08 PM

Why yes it does suck but you try telling that to Future Trunks.

How is else is he supposed to save the future? tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#115022: Jan 30th 2020 at 6:06:02 PM

Though Future Trunks doesn't save his own future that way. At least not directly.

Instead, he just takes so many levels in badass in the past that when he returns to his present he curbstomps the Androids and Cell.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#115023: Jan 30th 2020 at 6:09:13 PM

Yeah, there's always just a whole lot of storytelling risks that time travel inherently brings. And sadly the Russos and Marcus + Mc Feely simply weren't skilled enough to avoid the holes in logic.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#115024: Jan 30th 2020 at 6:09:38 PM

[up][up] And he lived happily ever after as a result........ until a certain Black guy came. tongue

[up] Is anyone even skilled enough?

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 30th 2020 at 6:10:05 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#115025: Jan 30th 2020 at 6:17:26 PM

If the entire starting premise of the show is about time travel it can work. I loved Quantum Leap for one thing.

I especially liked the various hints throughout the series implying that the changes Sam was making to the timeline led to our actual real life history.

Edited by M84 on Jan 30th 2020 at 10:19:55 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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