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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#114851: Jan 22nd 2020 at 6:07:51 PM

Details of any high-flying take were not revealed but the new story will move the setting from the 1990s of the first movie to the present day.

Huh, so we're not getting a sequel set in the '90s or during the post-Snap era.

It makes sense to move the series along instead of jumping around the timeline too much.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 22nd 2020 at 9:10:42 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#114852: Jan 22nd 2020 at 6:10:11 PM

The whole basis of your argument is pedantic: "There is an argument to be made that the United States of America owns the right to the name Captain America, and is therefore within their rights to do as they will their their own brand." Your reasoning was that because it used the word "America" it was automatically owned by the USA. That's as pedantic as they come, especially since "America" is used for more than just the USA, as I already pointed out. Trying to say that "America only refers to the United States" is silly and almost jingoistic to the point of "Do you think this A stands for France" levels. Even if you didn't mean it that way, that's how it comes across.

A man who dresses in the American flag and calls himself Captain America is acting as representative of the United States of America. Especially if this man got his powers from a United States military project, received the title Captain America as part of a propaganda campaign to raise support for the United States military during war-time, and then went on to serve as an active-duty soldier for the United States.

The United States government has a legit claim to go, "Yeah, the concept of Captain America actually belongs to the United States, not to Steve Rogers. We own this mantle. Legally, it's our position to fill." It'd be, if nothing else, an interesting court case.

And I don't think, "He might be Captain of CENTRAL America, DID YOU EVER THINK OF THAT?" is going to win over any jurors. Like I said, we all know which America is being referenced by the name, and it would take some pretty tortured logic to try and claim that it's some nebulous generalized America unassociated with any existing Americas.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 22nd 2020 at 7:12:27 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#114853: Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:11:33 PM

A man who dresses in the American flag and calls himself Captain America is acting as representative of the United States of America.
That wasn't your argument, though. Your argument was that "Captain America belongs to the United States of America." You stated nothing about what he was wearing or wielding or acting as a representative of. The entire argument hinged on his name.

Besides, the government doesn't own the "concept of America." It also doesn't own the image of the American flag. Anyone can use the flag for any reason they want (and yes, that includes burning or desecrating it — still legal). Anyone can use the name "America" for anything they want. (Just look at AOL.) Having the word "America" in it and draping it in a flag doesn't automatically mean that the government owns it.

And Steve Rogers was only acting as a "representative of the United States" before he went into the ice. Afterwards, he was a representative of SHIELD (an international organization) and the Avengers, but never the USA.

Edited by alliterator on Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:15:11 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#114854: Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:15:41 PM

Captain Marvel 2 is going to be written by Megan McDonnell, who's also writing WandaVision, where Monica Rambeau is going to show up in. So there's definitely going to be some kind of character carryover or power setup involved.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:15:50 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#114855: Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:16:26 PM

Actually, you know who I would love if they got to direct Captain Marvel 2? Greta Gerwig.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#114856: Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:17:01 PM

This argument's completely meaningless, because it's obvious Liberia is going to sue the US government for putting their flag on Cap's shield. tongue

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#114857: Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:20:09 PM

Which country was that Middle Eastern Captain America counterpart from The Ultimates who used a double-bladed lightsaber from?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#114859: Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:22:02 PM

[up][up]The Republic of Azerbaijan.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#114860: Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:27:12 PM

Is that a real place?

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:27:23 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
C105 Too old for this from France Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Too old for this
#114862: Jan 22nd 2020 at 11:04:39 PM

Out of curiosity, why is it so important to have a female writer and director specifically for the Captain Marvel film, as opposed to, say, a female writer/director for any other frigging movie with a male lead? Are female directors supposed to be restricted to films with a female lead, and are male directors considered unable to properly handle such a film?

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#114863: Jan 22nd 2020 at 11:51:14 PM

Are female directors supposed to be restricted to films with a female lead, and are male directors considered unable to properly handle such a film?

To the first question, no. I would support women writing and directing for movies with male leads. But the reason why so much vocal praise is given for women writing and directing movies with female leads is because the opportunities for women creatives in blockbuster film are so rare that a woman-led film getting them is regarded as a gift even though it should be the minimum expectation.

To the second question, yes, most of the time. There are so many documented cases of male creatives having no idea what to do with female characters or shoving them into tired stereotypes, including within the MCU, that going with women in lead creative roles is a safer bet in these cases. The outcome of men creatives writing women character is hard to predict; sometimes you get a great job like Black Panther, other times you get an Age of Ultron. tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 22nd 2020 at 11:53:51 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#114864: Jan 22nd 2020 at 11:51:50 PM

It's also that female directors can direct female actors better when it comes to making scenes dealing with sexism feel authentic, and that was a big part of the first Captain Marvel. Most male directors haven't experienced institutionalized misogyny like female directors have, so when they try to direct scenes involving female actors encountering that sort of thing, it can come across as awkward and inauthentic.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 22nd 2020 at 12:52:25 PM

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#114865: Jan 23rd 2020 at 12:02:34 AM

Is it necessary? No. Does it provide a perspective that cant be found otherwise? Yes. Art imitates life. If you've lived that life, your art can reflect that. It can be faked, but it wouldn't be the same.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#114866: Jan 23rd 2020 at 12:04:44 AM

I'm curious who Marvel is gonna be fighting this time.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#114867: Jan 23rd 2020 at 12:12:08 AM

Probably another go around with Yon-Rogg and the Supreme Intelligence.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#114868: Jan 23rd 2020 at 12:52:27 AM

If it's set in modern day, the Supreme Intelligence has already been defeated, the Kree have a different leader.

Personally, I like the idea I've heard of the villains of Captain Marvel 2 being Mystique as The Chessmaster Big Bad and Rogue as The Dragon who fights Carol on her level by stealing her powers. The movie would end with Rogue being redeemed and Mystique swearing vengence.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#114869: Jan 23rd 2020 at 1:27:06 AM

I strongly dislike identitarianism, so I dislike the notion that female-led films cannot be directed/written by men or male-led films cannot be directed/written by women. They just have to, you know, be intelligent, rational, and enlightened individuals rather than the troglodytic hacks who make up about 90% of most creative industries and don't know how to write the opposite sex.

That being said, if the specific work in question is heavily-steeped in a particular social issue, it makes sense that someone with relevant life experience in the subject is more likely to be qualified to write/direct it than otherwise. By the same principle I wouldn't expect somebody who has never listened to the Rolling Stones to film a documentary on the Rolling Stones.

I'm not sure if Captain Marvel really qualifies as "heavily-steeped", given it's a pretty boilerplate Marvel action film with a thin paint of "male characters act rude to our female protagonist" on its surface, but it's not as if it hurts the film to hire a female director for its sequel, especially if it intends to dig deeper into the subject than its predecessor did.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#114870: Jan 23rd 2020 at 1:51:45 AM

I'm not sure if Captain Marvel really qualifies as "heavily-steeped", given it's a pretty boilerplate Marvel action film with a thin paint of "male characters act rude to our female protagonist" on its surface
It's not just that "male characters are rude to her" (which isn't even the case — neither Fury nor Coulson is rude to her, really), it's that Carol faces sexism in various forms, from the toxic masculinity of the "You know why they call it a cockpit?" guy, to the people at the Air Force who wouldn't let her or Maria Rambeau fly combat missions, to Yon-Rogg, who repeatedly gaslights her and tells her to "control your emotions," making her seem as if she's some emotional woman instead of, well, obviously not.

That's one of the main points that I think a lot of people missed. I've seen complaints about how Yon-Rogg and the Supreme Intelligence tell Carol that she "struggles with her emotions" and to "control your emotions," but Brie Larson plays her as slyly smug a lot of the time, rather than "emotional out of control," but, well, that's the point. Carol doesn't struggle with her emotions, they just want to tamp down on her ambitions and gaslight her until she believes everything they tell her.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#114871: Jan 23rd 2020 at 2:26:22 AM

Yeah, the first Captain Marvel was actually really about misogyny in a lot of its more subtle forms, something a lot of people apparently missed because the movie didn't outright say it was sexism every time it was brought up.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#114872: Jan 23rd 2020 at 2:27:15 AM

Points to subtlety there. [tup]

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#114874: Jan 23rd 2020 at 8:59:13 AM

Nice. I haven't seen The Originals (although I've heard good things), but The Witcher was surprisingly awesome and well done. The third episode was the shtriga episode, which was great.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#114875: Jan 23rd 2020 at 11:50:42 AM

I don't know how much of the show was quoted directly from the books and how much was De Mayo's original work, but I found it a pretty well-done series on the whole. Not bad.


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