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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#114801: Jan 20th 2020 at 11:03:34 PM

The show's set on the planet Krypton before it blew up. One of the main characters is a time traveler from Earth, who's gone back into Krypton's past to ensure that Superman is born and survives to become Earth's greatest hero.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#114802: Jan 20th 2020 at 11:08:51 PM

Huh that's surprising.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#114803: Jan 20th 2020 at 11:45:08 PM

Not really. A show about Krypton without mentioning Superman would be surprising. And the show worked because, well, a majority of it was not about Superman — it was just that the time travel / Superman being "erased" gave the show a ticking clock and a problem to solve.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#114804: Jan 20th 2020 at 11:46:23 PM

Because obviously, they can't solve the problem of Krypton being blown up.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#114805: Jan 20th 2020 at 11:47:58 PM

Friggin' time travel again...

Disgusted, but not surprised
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#114806: Jan 21st 2020 at 12:46:51 AM

[up][up][up][up][up] It sounds like they rely heavily on elements the audience already knows: and rather than really being about Superman, it's about the future - not to mention its a motive that still resonates with the rest of the concept.

The Krypton equivalent of Amora being motivated by Thor in the Loki show without Thor ever showing up would be more like Jimmy Olsen or Lois showing up and doing one of those Superman's Best Pal / Girlfriend plots without Clark ever actually showing up.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#114807: Jan 21st 2020 at 3:31:28 AM

Krypton was such a great show.....and now there won't be a 3rd season despite sooo many open plot pointssad

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#114808: Jan 21st 2020 at 6:54:32 AM

Christophe Beck, composer of the Ant-Man movies, is doing the music for WandaVision.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jan 21st 2020 at 9:57:00 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#114809: Jan 21st 2020 at 8:22:38 AM

It sounds like they rely heavily on elements the audience already knows: and rather than really being about Superman, it's about the future
It doesn't and it's not. In fact, Krypton delves deeply into the Kryptonian class structure and worldbuilds a lot of Krypton's past. There are things from the future (like the Big Bad who is Brainiac and the time traveler, who is Adam Strange), but the show is actually more concerned about the Seg-El/Lyta Zod/Nyssa Vex soap opera and how the fascist society (led by the Voice of Rao) ended up changed.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#114810: Jan 21st 2020 at 8:42:14 AM

That's what I meant. The show is about Krypton. The character who knows about Superman is not literally centered around Superman, but is about Krypton's future.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#114812: Jan 21st 2020 at 10:39:56 AM

Speaking of motivations, I can think of ideas.

If is Amora of "Present"

  • The incompetence of "Present" Loki as King, caused Amora to conquer several kingdoms, and now she is empress.
  • Amora blames Loki for the death of Lorelei (assuming they are sisters in this continuity) and Skurge.

If is "2,012" Amora.

  • She wants to free her sister from prison.
  • Conquer kingdoms by manipulating men. (Just as her sister)

Another option is that she be the henchwoman of another villain, such as Karnilla, Hela, or Old Loki.

Note: Many might think that avenging or saving her sister is a somewhat poor motivation for a Big Bad, but not everyone should be obsessed with conquering or destroying the world.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jan 21st 2020 at 10:56:17 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#114813: Jan 21st 2020 at 10:57:04 AM

I'm pretty sure they confirmed that the show will take place in the timeline from Endgame where Loki escaped with the Tesseract. The Loki that was in charge of Asgard and died in Infinity War is still dead.

It wouldn't make sense that Amora would be holding Loki responsible for things he hasn't done yet. Unless you're suggesting that Amora traveled from the main timeline to get revenge on a Loki who was never in charge of Asgard.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 21st 2020 at 1:59:18 PM

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#114814: Jan 21st 2020 at 11:05:46 AM

No, my idea that is Loki of the 2012 journey from his timeline to "ours", using the Tesseract.

Then Amora, believing that he is the Loki she knows, holds him responsible for the destruction of Asgard.

Something similar to what happened with Wanda and Thanos.

—-

That is, if the rumor of Kid Loki or Lady Loki turns out to be true, then it is possible that Loki travels through different timelines.

—-

Loki's motivation to change the timeline is to escape Odin and Thanos, and make sure to go to a place where neither of them is alive.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jan 21st 2020 at 11:11:34 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#114815: Jan 21st 2020 at 1:41:35 PM

We got our first shots of Wyatt Russell in costume as U.S. Agent in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. (Might be a spoiler though, so proceed with caution.)

While he's not in his signature black costume, the one he has on DOES have design cues based off it, like the star on his upper right pectoral and the red stripes on his chest.

HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#114816: Jan 21st 2020 at 1:53:28 PM

Very 'imitation Captain America', which I guess is the point. Maybe they could recolour it somewhere down the line if he sticks around.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#114817: Jan 21st 2020 at 2:04:47 PM

Oh yeah, he's definitely a villain.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#114818: Jan 21st 2020 at 2:11:21 PM

[up][up]That's what he was when he was first introduced. He was chosen by the government to be the new Captain America after Steve gave up the role due to not wanting to be their stooge. He only got the black suit and a new codename after Steve went back to being Captain America.

I'm guessing here he is similarly going to be the guy that the government wants to be the new Cap rather than Sam.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#114819: Jan 21st 2020 at 3:19:05 PM

In that case it would be a Take That! to fans who want Bucky to be the new Cap rather than Sam.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jan 21st 2020 at 3:19:38 AM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#114820: Jan 21st 2020 at 4:06:03 PM

I don't really think so. Like I said, it's a plot straight from the comics. The government wants a Captain America, but one who will do what he's told without questioning orders or going against U.S. interests.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#114821: Jan 21st 2020 at 4:31:19 PM

It's more of a response to an existing criticism of Captain America's character than a Take That! at any part of fandom. He'd make as good of an enemy to Bucky Cap (who spent 70 years of his life as an unconsenting puppet assassin for authoritarian government forces) as it would with Captain Falcon.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#114822: Jan 21st 2020 at 4:38:49 PM

Walker kinda walks the line between hero, Anti-Hero, and just plain villain at times doesn't he?

Like he wants to do good, but his personality means he's not well liked by the other heroes, and as pointed out he tends to be more likely to follow Government orders than anyone else.

One Strip! One Strip!
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#114823: Jan 21st 2020 at 4:41:16 PM

He's also a jerkass, although he has worked with the Avengers from time to time. There was a great run where he led the Thunderbolts after losing a leg in Afghanistan, but refused to get a robotic leg, because he felt it would make it too much like Nuke.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#114824: Jan 21st 2020 at 4:47:10 PM

There is an argument to be made that the United States of America owns the right to the name Captain America, and is therefore within their rights to do as they will their their own brand.

In fact, given that Cap originally served as part of a propaganda stage program, there probably is actually a legal trademark for his brand. His shows might even have a copyright.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 21st 2020 at 5:50:36 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#114825: Jan 21st 2020 at 4:56:34 PM

Him having the actual SHIELD (or something that looks like it) makes sense also.

Ross has pulled "if this stuff was created by the US government, it belongs to us and you're just holding onto it" card before. It was the reasoning behind confiscating everyone's equipment halfway through Civil War (though Tony delivered the line), and way back in The Incredible Hulk he tried to pull that on Banner's actual body. And last he checked Sam and Bucky were fugitives.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 21st 2020 at 5:00:05 AM


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