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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#114302: Jan 6th 2020 at 12:28:13 PM

The uses of things like element/molecular manipulation are one of the things that drives me nuts about superhero stories. You get someone with a mutant power like “transmute one element into another” and everyone immediately jumps to “what are the combat applications of this?”, when the non-combat applications are literally world-changing.

Likewise, powers like “universal translation” are so unbelievably useful for non-combat means (the number of endangered languages you could save! the value to archaeology!) and get treated as useless or as things that need some kind of redefinition to be combat-applicable.

It’s the inverse of “when all you have is a hammer”. It’s treating everything as a hammer regardless of its real utility.

Think how many problems would be solved if Australia had a pyrokinetic on hand right now.

(It’s also what makes X-Men stories so frustrating. The humans are looking at a socioeconomic revolution of the scale of the Industrial Revolution and throwing it away by insisting on only seeing mutants as prospective slaves or prospective threats.)

Edited by Galadriel on Jan 6th 2020 at 3:36:20 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#114306: Jan 6th 2020 at 1:33:47 PM

If Christian Bale is hired, this would make him the 5th white guy Chris in superhero cinematic universes.

And the 5th one to work with Zoe Saldana. She really is collecting them like Thanos. [lol]

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 6th 2020 at 1:34:09 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#114307: Jan 6th 2020 at 1:36:14 PM

I would love it if Bale played Beta Ray Bill, especially with his real accent (which he rarely uses in films, I believe). But he's probably not going to. I think he'll actually be playing Gorr the God Butcher.

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#114308: Jan 6th 2020 at 1:58:08 PM

[up][up]Damnit Gamora, don't take after that bastard.

Also, for funsies I went and revised my rankings since I've seen them all now. The bottom five, and especially the bottom three, are the only ones I think flatout suck. But hey, this still shifts and changes a lot.

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Jan 6th 2020 at 2:01:36 AM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#114309: Jan 6th 2020 at 2:37:25 PM

[up][up]It just hit me that I never even considered who the main villain of Thor: Love and Thunder could be. The Wrecking Crew were brought up, but only as intro villains disposed of in the first act. I guess I just assumed the whole movie would be Thor hanging out with Korg/Jane-Thor being woo'd by Valkyrie.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#114310: Jan 6th 2020 at 2:52:33 PM

Maybe Mangog? I know he was the main villain in the Thor game, but you never know.

His backstory would help play into the themes of colonialism that Ragnarok set up.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 6th 2020 at 5:55:34 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#114311: Jan 6th 2020 at 2:55:21 PM

If Siff was coming back I’d assume it be Bill since he’s usually her “Love & Thunder”.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#114312: Jan 6th 2020 at 2:58:18 PM

I assumed that the villain was going to be Amora the Enchantress. (In case she didn't appear in the Loki series)

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#114313: Jan 6th 2020 at 3:09:20 PM

Ragnarok did not set up the themes of colonialism. They were part of the Thor franchise from the beginning. Ragnarok just applied them with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer that couldn't even knock down the main colonizer from his pedestal.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#114314: Jan 6th 2020 at 3:14:20 PM

[up] I don't think those themes were in the first two Thor movies. Then again I haven't seen them in years. As I found them boring.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#114315: Jan 6th 2020 at 3:17:14 PM

Eh, it’s there if you take about 5 minutes to consider the underlying implications of Asgard/Odin’s actions. Taika just shone a big light on it.

And yet a toooon of (white) people I know didn’t get the anti-colonialism themes until it was pointed out to them. Then they went surprised

IronScope STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS. from Somewhere Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
STOP. RESETTING. MY. DISPLAY. OPTIONS.
#114316: Jan 6th 2020 at 3:21:04 PM

"Colonialism is bad and Odin was the main force behind Asgard's imperialism, therefore he is a bad dude"

"Odin is the wise and unquestioned spirit advisor"

Which one is it, Mr. Waititi?

This place is careless.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#114317: Jan 6th 2020 at 3:21:29 PM

I haven't seen Dark World but there's a few scenes in the first Thor that are a lot more meaningful with the context of Ragnarok. Laufey shittalking Odin and saying he's a massive asshole feels rather justified, for example.

[up]The implication in Ragnarok is that he used to be the former but has been trying to be a better person since at least Thor 1. Arguably the problem is the films are too lenient on him still.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Jan 6th 2020 at 7:22:28 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#114318: Jan 6th 2020 at 3:21:54 PM

They were kind of there. The first movie starts with Thor attacking another kingdom and his character development is about him learning humility, while Loki learns that he is the heir to said kingdom and still tries to off them and Odin.

The second movie is about the Dark Elves being a threat that Odin's dad defeated being back for revenge, their whole thing is that they hate how the universe has light in it so they want to destroy all the light just to make their own species comfortable, even if it comes at the expense of literally everyone else everywhere.

It's not quite "colonialism", but the whole Thor trilogy does have an underlying theme of "royalty fucking ruining tons of innocent lives for stupid political reasons".

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#114319: Jan 6th 2020 at 3:42:34 PM

[up][up]

Thanks for putting a big spotlight on it. That's the big one, but the hypocrisy is all over the movie. Surtur deserves to die because he wants to destroy Asgard, but it's good for Asgard to be destroyed. Loki's bad for not using Asgard's armies to further oppress keep peace in the subject realms. Valkyrie's a hero even though she spent centuries as a slaver and only really felt bad about her sisters' deaths and not all the misery she perpetrated to drown out her sorrows.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#114320: Jan 6th 2020 at 3:48:12 PM

They never said Surtur deserved to die, and Thor's criticism of Loki not acting much as king came before he knew what Asgard really was. Valkyrie was also suggested to be a slave herself, hence why on Sakaar she doesn't even have a name, only a number.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#114321: Jan 6th 2020 at 3:51:09 PM

Nidavellir getting wrecked by Thanos because Loki wasn't paying attention to shit and/or because Asgard's entire army was murdered by Hela doesn't have to mean colonialism is good.

But when you've made a subject state dependent on a colonial power for protection or economy which suddenly pulls out, well thats a dick move too.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#114322: Jan 6th 2020 at 3:56:10 PM

Odin: still a shit.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#114323: Jan 6th 2020 at 4:27:00 PM

Odins intentions got a lot better but his execution thereof was still kind of iffy.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#114324: Jan 6th 2020 at 4:35:37 PM

So, New Mutants is still happening.

I have no clue what this means for the MCU. I just sort of assumed Dark Pheonix was the death of the Fox-Men, and Deadpool 3 was going to be handwaved into the MCU due to the time travel that happened in both Deadpool 2 and Endgame. Maybe they're going to rework this movie to be the official introduction of Mutants in the MCU, or maybe the Fox-Men franchise is actually going to continue alongside the MCU as an alternate universe, or maybe something else, I dunno.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#114325: Jan 6th 2020 at 5:01:49 PM

[up]That film was in the can for a year. My bet is they have to release it, to at least try and make some money back.


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