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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#114126: Jan 1st 2020 at 7:19:07 AM

What about Kluh, is that still a thing? Where Hulk himself Hulks out due to, not rage, but sadness? Wouldn't Kluh be stronger than any normal Hulk form?

As for Bullseye vs Hawkeye, Hawkeye doesn't have a superpower. Bullseye's perfect accuracy is a full-on superpower. Any object Bullseye throws or shoots will aim right for its target, the only way to beat his power is to use a shield.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#114127: Jan 1st 2020 at 7:22:35 AM

Yeah, Hawkeye is a one-trick pony. Bullseye is much more versatile.

As for Kluh, that version was nothing more than a one-note character in an extremely crappy crossover, and what he did was certainly not even close to the normal Hulk's best.

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TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#114128: Jan 1st 2020 at 7:34:09 AM

PLOT TWIST!

WandaVision got bumped to 2020!

...which is THIS year! Because it's 2020 now and...oh, you get the idea. tongue

Crazy good news to wake up to in any case, am I right? grin

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jan 1st 2020 at 10:52:26 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#114129: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:08:59 AM

Hawkeye v. Bullseye isn't quite as simple as "Bullseye can make pens into weapons so he wins." Bullseye has a brutal proficiency with improvising any object on his person into a deadly weapon.

Hawkeye has a brutal proficiency with the actual deadly weapons that he carries. Clint can't turn a playing card into a throwing knife, but an arrow through the face is still an arrow through the face.

Instead of improvised throwing weapons, Clint has an arsenal of trick arrows used in Avengers-level conflicts.

The difference between them is one of degrees. Bullseye is a street-level assassin. He's very dangerous to characters like DareDevil. But Hawkeye rolls with the likes of Thor, the Hulk, and Iron Man and actually keeps pace. Even if Clint can't put a #2 pencil through a man's neck at 300 yards, the characters aren't in the same weight class.

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#114130: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:10:01 AM

Clint can also make a bow out of random garbage so it’s hard to keep him disarmed

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#114131: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:13:30 AM

Daredevil has also been an Avenger. And honestly, Hawkeye has been a Streetlevel character far more than an Avenger during the last years, especially in his solo titles.

It's also not like he pulls all of these special arrows just out of his quiver. They are normally developed by other people FOR him for special occasions.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 1st 2020 at 5:14:34 PM

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#114132: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:14:59 AM

Clint actually invented anti gravity arrows on his own in an Avengers comic

It wasn’t crucial to resolve the plot or even relevant to anything. He just invented anti-gravity by himself when he was bored

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#114133: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:15:43 AM

> "Bullseye can make pens into weapons so he wins

my brain read that as penis for some reason..

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#114134: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:20:22 AM

Also, for what it's worth, that whole improvised weapon thing? Clint can do that too, Bullseye's not special.

Clint is objectively deadlier than Bullseye in every way.

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#114135: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:20:45 AM

That sounds like BS though, Clint ain't no scientist.

[up] Yeah, that was a strange Fraction-only run thing, where he suddenly decided to make him like Ultimate Hawkeye, for some reason.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 1st 2020 at 5:21:26 PM

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#114136: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:24:00 AM

What it boils down to is that when you regularly fight space gods, dimension-shattering invaders from other realities, arcane forces of infinite horror, etc., you gotta develop some skills.

Way more skills than what you develop when you regularly pull assassination jobs on fat businessmen and occasionally mix it up with martial artists.

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windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#114137: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:24:46 AM

But Hawkeye rolls with the likes of Thor, the Hulk, and Iron Man and actually keeps pace.

So how does a guy like this gain a reputation as the "useless Avenger"?

Daredevil has also been an Avenger.

Which didn't really last long tbf.

That sounds like BS though, Clint ain't no scientist.

I'm pretty sure he was making use of trick arrows as early as his first appearance. He may not be as smart as Tony or Reed but he has enough skill in engineering for it to matter.

Edited by windleopard on Jan 1st 2020 at 8:26:37 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#114138: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:26:14 AM

Because memes.

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#114139: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:27:25 AM

I think people overstate his importance to the Avengers, more likely. It's not like he is always the deciding factor when it comes to fighting these larger-than-life threats. He usually tends to fight the mooks or provide cover-fire.

He is not a big hitter ala Hulk or Thor.

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#114140: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:28:35 AM

Hell in recent years he has been more part of SHIELD or cover-ops like the Secret Avengers. Thats where he shines - as an operative.

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windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#114141: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:28:37 AM

Way more skills than what you develop when you regularly pull assassination jobs on fat businessmen and occasionally mix it up with martial artists.

Just a reminder that this is what happened to Bullseye when he went up against American Eagle, a guy who had super powers and knew how to fight.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#114142: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:28:46 AM

Honestly the useless Avenger was Swordsman who was like Hawkeye but worse in every way and then he died lamenting how useless he was

Or Dr Druid. Fuck that guy

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Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#114143: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:29:05 AM

at least he's not dressed as Robinhood like a certain green arrow

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#114144: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:40:34 AM

So how does a guy like this gain a reputation as the "useless Avenger"?

Because of the public perception that he didn't get a lot to do in The Avengers, followed by Whedon thinking it would be fun to lean into that in the actual movie for humor's sake in Ultron like an idiot.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 1st 2020 at 8:40:50 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#114145: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:41:30 AM

I think the most useless Avenger was Wolverine, honestly, from a readers point of view. Never fit in there at all.

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#114146: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:49:01 AM

I’m switching my answer to that

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windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#114147: Jan 1st 2020 at 8:55:31 AM

Because of the public perception that he didn't get a lot to do in The Avengers, followed by Whedon thinking it would be fun to lean into that in the actual movie for humor's sake in Ultron like an idiot.

I was actually talking about the comic version of Hawkeye. Sorry, should have made that clear.

[up][up], [up] The Avengers always had an "everything and the kitchen sink" approach to who was allowed on the roster. Wolverine just stood out because of how overexposed he was but he really wasn't anymore out of place than Black Widow who is supposed to be an espionage agent.

Edited by windleopard on Jan 1st 2020 at 9:11:18 AM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#114148: Jan 1st 2020 at 9:10:08 AM

Black Widow didn't do an awful lot of Avengering in the comics - some, but not much, though she's been connected to the group overall. She's mostly known for it due to the movies.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#114149: Jan 1st 2020 at 9:17:32 AM

Wolverine stood out because they kept insisting that they totally needed Wolverine on the team to do the murders that the other Avengers were too soft to do

But that’s a dumb reason. Thor is from a race of warrior murder gods and both Captain America and Iron Man have done a kill if necessary

Hawkeye is stringently against killing. Except when written by Bendis where he becomes a huge fan of killing.

And Bendis also put Wolverine on the team so yeah. Wolverine has no reason to be here

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#114150: Jan 1st 2020 at 9:47:40 AM

You don't have to convince me.

Hating on Wolverine is doing god's work. You don't need a reason.[lol]

Though I look forward to Marvel's take on him. Will they tap into his old school characterization of complete asshole 90% of the time? I hope so. Though that will make his softer moments more genuine as well instead of pandering. In the meantime, we can continue to hate on him.

One Strip! One Strip!

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