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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#113676: Dec 11th 2019 at 3:38:12 PM

Don't think it really needs one, and under the wrong hands it could likely go...amiss.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#113677: Dec 11th 2019 at 10:13:01 PM

While Black Widow could be good as an R-rated film, it could also go very badly into too dark and too edgy. Spy films can be good R-rated, but Black Widow has a backstory that is far too easy to spin into something stupid dark. I mean, Natasha was raised basically from birth to be a seductress and an assassin. I can think of half a dozen terrible dark plots that I would hate to watch that would be easy to spin off that.

Edited by Discar on Dec 11th 2019 at 10:15:33 AM

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113678: Dec 11th 2019 at 10:14:34 PM

Wasn't there a movie that came out a while ago that is like a terrible Black Widow movie?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#113679: Dec 11th 2019 at 10:22:13 PM

[up] I think you might be referring to Red Sparrow?

I'm perfectly fine with a Black Widow movie remaining PG-13. In the right hands, I can see an R-rated film working for the character, but it seems this film is aiming closer to the tone of Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113680: Dec 11th 2019 at 10:26:58 PM

[up] Yup that's the one.

Played by Jennifer Lawrence.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#113681: Dec 12th 2019 at 8:05:05 AM

A thought occurs as I'm watching the Batroc fight scene in Winter Soldier.

HYDRA had infiltrated SHIELD, and sure not everybody was drinking their kool-aid, but nobody ever tried to reach out to Natasha at some earlier point in her career? It seems like the film made a point early on that there was friction between her and Cap over how she handled things.

She also had a spotty past she was trying to make up for - but she wasn't always on the side of the angels.

HYDRA grabbed John Garrett, brainwashed Bucky and several others, and somehow recruited Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver.

Edited by Soble on Dec 12th 2019 at 8:09:22 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113682: Dec 12th 2019 at 8:19:44 AM

I’d guess Hydra didn’t approach anyone they weren’t sure would sign up or at least could be killed without fuss if they said no

Natasha going missing would have been a huge red flag to Fury and that’s only if they could even take her out

Also, Wanda and Pietro were recruited from a street protest so they’re less Hydra diehards and more specifically just super angry at the US and Avengers

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#113683: Dec 12th 2019 at 8:42:21 AM

Given Zola's little program there was most likely a version already done that helped weed out potential HYDRA recruits vs those too loyal to flip.

Don't count out any possible psych evals made by "SHIELD" being used to weed out recruits.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#113684: Dec 12th 2019 at 8:53:21 AM

After joining SHIELD, while still pretty damn ruthless, it’s clear Nat was pretty idealistic about what the organization was doing and her place in it. She cared about SHIELD and being a good guy - so much that I imagine HYDRA noticed and didn’t but pursue her.

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#113685: Dec 12th 2019 at 8:59:16 AM

Also remember she was recruited by Clint Barton/Hawkeye. If she was brought in by anybody else like say Garrett...it might have been a different story.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#113686: Dec 12th 2019 at 9:46:55 AM

It's also possible that, since she only came to S.H.I.E.L.D. after defecting from the Red Room, the Hydra higher ups were worried she might be a Red Room double agent infiltrating S.H.I.E.L.D., in which case the Hydra conspiracy would need to be hidden from her at all costs.

32ndfreeze Since: Mar, 2012
#113687: Dec 12th 2019 at 3:50:07 PM

I'd also suspect that when it came to the most competent agents like Nat, they'd have only gone for recruitment if the were absolutely sure it would succeed.

Since otherwise she could totally fake it and start informing on them to Fury.

ComicFan Since: Sep, 2016
#113688: Dec 13th 2019 at 10:29:36 AM

Desmond Chiam and Miki Ishikawa joins Falcon and The Winter Soldier [1]

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#113689: Dec 13th 2019 at 10:59:22 AM

the russo brother wented to guy of honest trailer and they answer some question, and they said that HYDRA involment of shield was most to weapon deparment, that mean if shield create some weapon, hydra got it.

in fact, in my headcanon that HYDRA order most of ghost missions.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#113690: Dec 13th 2019 at 11:08:15 AM

[up][up] That's interesting, I wonder who they are playing.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#113691: Dec 13th 2019 at 11:13:42 AM

Hopefully they're more substantial and less stereotypical and cliche than Hiroyuki Sanada's character in Endgame at least.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113692: Dec 13th 2019 at 11:29:41 AM

Well it's a TV that doesn't have to juggle a bazzilion characters so the answers obvious there.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#113693: Dec 13th 2019 at 11:47:22 AM

They could still screw it up, obviously, but having more runtime to dedicate to minor characters is a good start.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#113694: Dec 13th 2019 at 5:59:35 PM

Broke: Odin was a bad dad who hated his children.

Woke: Odin did genuinely love his children but he was terrible at expressing his emotions partly because of the society he himself had been raised in and was conditioned to propagate and partly because of what he considers to be his responsibilities as king. He probably thought you had to be a dick to your kids sometimes to see how they handled pressure, criticism, and not getting their way, because they're not just growing up to become a normal person, but literally one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

My various fanfics.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#113695: Dec 13th 2019 at 6:01:14 PM

Broke: Odin was a bad dad who hated his children.

I don't know how you could possibly get that idea from watching the films. Well, ok, bad father yes, but that he didn't love his children?

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#113696: Dec 13th 2019 at 6:47:24 PM

Odin had a LOT of problems that add up to me not being able to deem him a good person but he has more good going for him than fucking Ego. I actually buy that he cares about Thor.

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Dec 13th 2019 at 6:49:43 AM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#113697: Dec 13th 2019 at 7:09:09 PM

Eh, I just get annoyed by memes.

And I believe that Odin genuinely loved Loki. Just, again, very bad at expressing his emotions.

"You're my son. I only wanted to protect you from the truth."

My various fanfics.
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#113698: Dec 13th 2019 at 7:27:47 PM

Honestly, I didn’t think Odin was that bad in the first movie. I read his “only one of you can rule Asgard, but both of you were born to be kings” line as saying that he had hoped that Loki would become ruler of Jotunheim at some future point, with Thor as ruler of Asgard, allowing the forging of a durable peace.

Thor’s exile was warranted given just how badly he screwed up. Imagine one of the Trump kids personally launching an unauthorized invasion of, say, Iran. The attack on Jotunheim was spectacularly stupid and reckless. And it was clearly set up from the start to allow him to return if/when he got his act together.

Edited by Galadriel on Dec 13th 2019 at 10:31:25 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113699: Dec 13th 2019 at 7:53:36 PM

I doubt he was grooming Loki to be the new Frost Giant king. More likely he was setting him up to be Asgard’s ambassador to other nations and worlds.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#113700: Dec 13th 2019 at 8:19:33 PM

Eh, Odin isn't written as that bad in the first movie, but under a critical eye he doesn't come off very well. He ignored all the warning signs about Thor's arrogance and carelessness until Thor almost started a war, and he reacted to that by berating Thor, stripping him of everything he valued, and only giving a minor oblique indication for how Thor could earn redemption. He gave no guidance, just an all-or-nothing symbol. His reaction to Loki finding out the truth and confronting him was terrible, he deflected all of Loki's (understandable!) anger at being lied to with excuses and tried to make it out that Loki was being unfair. Overall he's dangerously irresponsible as a king and a father, with his main strategy always being to ignore problems until they blow up in his face and then lash out at whoever exploded.


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