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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

J79 Since: Jan, 2015
#113551: Dec 4th 2019 at 3:33:44 PM

So I was just thinking, how will the surviving Avengers explain Cap's absence to the world? You know that people will be wondering and speculating, and they'll have to say something.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113552: Dec 4th 2019 at 3:35:07 PM

“He died”

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#113553: Dec 4th 2019 at 3:36:09 PM

He was included in the eulogy at the start of Far From Home, right?

Brandon Deadly Vu! from Between Thanksgiving and Christmas (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Deadly Vu!
#113554: Dec 4th 2019 at 3:59:24 PM

[up] Which I always wondered if that was because it was said he died during the battle with Thanos' army, or if Old!Steve had actually passed...

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#113555: Dec 4th 2019 at 4:49:08 PM

"He's alive but he time-travelled himself into being an old man" is a pretty tough pill for the whole world to swallow. Part of me even wonders if time travel itself wasn't kept confidential.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#113556: Dec 4th 2019 at 5:32:58 PM

Depending on how public they were with the details regarding the Time Heist, my best bet is that the Avengers claimed Steve left to return the Infinity Stones and never came back. They couldn't find any trace of him, so he was probably as good as dead.

I mean, there were a lot of witnesses that saw Steve alive during the final battle. It'd be hard to keep them all silent.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113557: Dec 4th 2019 at 6:04:56 PM

A lot of them were wizards and aliens

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#113558: Dec 4th 2019 at 6:08:41 PM

Expecting conspiracy theories of "Tony Stark faked his death! Whoever heard of a glove killing a person? And isn't it so convenient that we don't have a body"?

Edited by fredhot16 on Dec 4th 2019 at 6:10:53 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#113559: Dec 4th 2019 at 6:11:07 PM

Maybe Cap died shortly after Endgame of natural causes?

Leviticus 19:34
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#113560: Dec 4th 2019 at 6:24:42 PM

Just sayin', the quantum de-ager is`still a thing. We could always bring Cap back to his prime should the need arise.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#113561: Dec 4th 2019 at 6:27:17 PM

The what-a-what?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113562: Dec 4th 2019 at 6:28:08 PM

The thing that made Scott Lang pee himself.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#113563: Dec 4th 2019 at 6:29:02 PM

Expecting conspiracy theories of "Tony Stark faked his death! Whoever heard of a glove killing a person? And isn't it so convenient that we don't have a body"?
Why wouldn't they have Tony's body? He died, he didn't disintegrate.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#113564: Dec 4th 2019 at 6:30:00 PM

[up]I did not watch the movie so I thought he got dusted. Literally.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#113565: Dec 4th 2019 at 6:30:43 PM

You haven't seen Endgame? Get thee to Disney+, post haste!

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#113566: Dec 4th 2019 at 6:33:07 PM

Sure, once I catch up with The Good Place and El Goonish Shive and My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic and the Kaiji manga and Yu-gi-oh! Arc-V! and Puella Magi Madoka Magica: Rebellion and I think you get the point.

I'm a media hoarder. I have too much stuff I want to watch and read or whatever and garbage juggling skills.

Edited by fredhot16 on Dec 4th 2019 at 6:35:20 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#113567: Dec 4th 2019 at 7:01:12 PM

Like. That serum could not have been that impossible to reproduce. Some 40-50 years later a bunch of people get bitten by a radioactive spider, a scientist gets hit with just the right amount of nuclear radiation to become the Hulk, and four people go into outer space and get hit with cosmic rays that give them super powers. an ex-con ends up getting tested on and coming out with bulletproof skin.

In the MCU, both Hulk and Abomination are the result of different experiments trying to replicate the Super Soldier Serum.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#113568: Dec 4th 2019 at 7:12:48 PM

Remember how in Captain America: The First Avenger, it was mentioned that the super-soldier serum amplified a person's best/worst qualities? "Good becomes great, bad becomes worse"? I think you can kind of see that with Bruce and Blonsky, how the Hulk represents Banner's repressed anger and the Abomination Blonsky's lust for combat. Obviously the whole gamma irradiation made those traits take on a more physical form, but I can see some connection there.

Although I wonder what trait the serum amplified for Bucky? His obedience? Determination? Or maybe I overanalyzing things again, but it's something the film itself brought up in regards to Steve and Schmidt.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#113569: Dec 4th 2019 at 7:16:34 PM

I don't think Bucky took the serum, but was augmented by a variety of yet to be established other means.

I can definitely see that in Blonsky, though. I kind of wonder if the serum actually keeps working perfectly, rather than them not getting it right, it's just that nobody gets what Erskine was trying to do when he picked Steve so they all make the same mistake Phillips almost did and keep throwing flawed subjects at it - hence all the "failures."

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 4th 2019 at 7:17:27 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#113570: Dec 4th 2019 at 7:29:20 PM

I recall Coulson in Avengers 1 claiming that Banner used gamma radiation in absence of Erskine's Vita-Rays. Maybe the missing element isn't the formula, but the specific type of radiation used.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113571: Dec 4th 2019 at 7:34:42 PM

The serum in the MCU seems to work by amplifying everything about a person both in body and mind. As a result, it not only gives them a physical boost it also puts them through in-universe Flanderization.

Even Steve doesn't get unqualified benefit from this. The serum seems to have really brought out his tendency to sacrifice his own well-being for others. It's not until Endgame that he finally grows out of this and does something for his own happiness.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#113572: Dec 4th 2019 at 8:01:55 PM

You can argue the solution to the missing formula is not just the ingredients, but the test subject themselves. The deformities of the Red Skull wouldn't happen, or be survivable, by any normal person. And Blonsky WAS enhanced by the formula given, but was showing signs of Abomination mutations before he really went off the deep end. It could be that both Steve's frailty and emotional stability contribute to the end result, in a sort of Your Mind Makes It Real qualifier. We never really saw how the alternate Winter Soldiers fared in combat or their mental stability, only that they were strong enough to give Bucky problems.

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#113573: Dec 4th 2019 at 8:06:42 PM

We actually saw them go berserk in the movie, so I don't think they are completely in control of their emotions.

Neither was Bucky for that matter, they just kept frying his brain and putting him in ice to minimize the risk and prevent him from aging.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#113574: Dec 4th 2019 at 8:42:59 PM

I actually pointed out the thing about how what happened with Blonsky was more of a feature than a bug way back while either watching TFA and remembering TIH or watching TIH and remembering TFA.

Basically, yeah. Once you watching Erskine's explanation of how the formula works, Blonksy doing what he does suddenly makes a truck load of sense.

It was actually working perfectly. In fact, the idea that it's not the formula that's the problem, but the subjects isn't really that crazy when you consider how careful Erskine was about who he gave it to, especially after the Red Skull debacle.

In fact, I don't think he ever told anyone BUT Steve about the finer details of how it works, which means even Howard probably never understood it fully.

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113575: Dec 4th 2019 at 8:47:57 PM

Although it working perfectly makes it a failure by military standards.

They want a mass producible super soldier serum, not something where they have to seek out the pure of heart.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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