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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#113251: Nov 30th 2019 at 5:56:23 PM

[up]Then make them less bad. We have a clean slate.

Then again, considering all the properties Marvel keeps getting, we could legitimately have an MCU Ultraman movie if cards fall a certain way.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113252: Nov 30th 2019 at 5:56:36 PM

You actually think they would side with the government over something like this?

No one sides with the government.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 30th 2019 at 5:56:57 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#113253: Nov 30th 2019 at 5:57:50 PM

The MCU has juggled Superman Stays Out of Gotham pretty well — in the first Ant-Man, Hank refuses to call the Avengers because he doesn't want his technology falling into the hands of Tony Stark. So all they really need is a good reason to stay out of the fight — like mutants not trusting authority figures like the Avengers or the Avengers being unsure about how to handle such a problem (if they fight Sentinels they would basically be fighting the US government) and so on.

We will inevitably see the Avengers and X-Men fight and then team up, however, because a movie called Avengers vs X-Men will definitely make all of the money.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#113254: Nov 30th 2019 at 5:58:17 PM

Well, there are issues on both sides.

Yes, there are a lot of mutants with powers so ridiculous and uncontrollable that they would in fact be a massive danger to themselves and others (like that one kid from the ultimate line who creates a corrosive gas that killed everyone in his hometown by accident).

But when everyone's reaction to every single mutant, without fail is gotta kill all dem muties, it gets a little tiring. Especially when a lot of those mutants are heroes who try and help people, or have powers that aren't all that dangerous or are least well within control.

Hickman has at least given both sides reasons to have issues with each other, and come up with a new direction for the Mutants after years of we are about to be wiped out completely again and again.

Edit: [up]

Although Hank was probably worrying about nothing: Tony wouldn't take someone else's tech since he very much understands making sure such tech doesn't fall into the wrong hands....even if Scott did end up giving Tony access to Pym particles, but that was a one time thing.

The idea of the Xmen not fully trusting the Avengers isn't out of the question though.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Nov 30th 2019 at 7:00:15 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#113255: Nov 30th 2019 at 5:58:33 PM

If it's group like Magneato's brotherhood then yeah,untill they like meet the xmen

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#113256: Nov 30th 2019 at 5:59:00 PM

The government seems to go Sieg Heil every time the mutant topic comes up, and if found out as one, you can see the lynch mob forming in the time it takes to count to three. Most mutants only have the power of being green skinned, or something lame, anyway.

Edited by Blueace on Nov 30th 2019 at 11:00:33 AM

Wake me up at your own risk.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#113257: Nov 30th 2019 at 6:01:07 PM

If it's group like Magneato's brotherhood then yeah,untill they like meet the xmen
That's silly. You are saying that the Avengers would judge an entire minority on the basis of the single group of extremists? You know that Captain America is black now, right?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113258: Nov 30th 2019 at 6:01:33 PM

[up][up] Those are actual terrorist groups.

Of course they would go against them but they wouldn't judge all Mutants based on just them.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 30th 2019 at 6:02:21 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113259: Nov 30th 2019 at 6:01:55 PM

I never bought the argument because the Avengers are fairly frequently telling the government to fuck off.

Captain America in particular spends much of the time he's not punching Nazis punching government conspiracies.

They fairly regularly have mutant members and have taken flak from the stupid public for this and have always stood by their Quicksilvers or Beasts or Scarlet Witches.

The reason why the Avengers never got involved in X-Men biz is because Chris Claremont didn't want anyone else messing with his complete control of the X-Men narrative.

When Professor X was infected with a technoorganic virus Beast asked if maybe they should contact scientists like Reed Richards outside the mutant community and Moira Mactaggart went 'nah, you got this'

Edited by Bocaj on Nov 30th 2019 at 9:09:51 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#113260: Nov 30th 2019 at 6:15:47 PM

I'm basically proposing the obvious solution of just not writing the MCU Avengers that way in the first place, since the MCU is not obligated in any way to have the Avengers not care about mutants even if the comics Avengers are perceived that way.

Hell, they're not obligated to have the government be the ones attempting to exterminate mutants at all, which removes the problem completely (though it wouldn't have been one, given that the MCU Avengers have on multiple occasions told the government to stuff it).

The argument has been used to justify any number of extreme "solutions" like "have the two franchises be in explicit alternate universes," when it's easily just solved by writing them to fit in the same universe.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 30th 2019 at 6:19:28 AM

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#113261: Nov 30th 2019 at 6:16:15 PM

I imagine the depiction of the Sentinels standing out among the MCU for, well, a bunch of things probably but particularly how dark it would be ideally because of bringing about subject matter that's horrifyingly, depressingly real and relevant and deserving to be taken seriously.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#113262: Nov 30th 2019 at 6:27:14 PM

The reason why the Avengers never got involved in X-Men biz is because Chris Claremont didn't want anyone else messing with his complete control of the X-Men narrative.

Though that complete control of the narrative did result in his legendary run, so maybe he had something there. It did possibly hurt them in the long term however, in that Marvel carried that over to later runs, and after a while it stopped making sense.

What's the point of a Shared Universe if you aren't willing to share?

One Strip! One Strip!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#113263: Nov 30th 2019 at 6:37:24 PM

[up][up]Well you could have the government outright rejecting the killbot idea as stupid and a private megacorp take it up because of how society is these days.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#113264: Nov 30th 2019 at 6:45:25 PM

I can definitely see the Sentinels or Weapon X as a Private Military Contractor like Blackwater.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#113265: Nov 30th 2019 at 6:55:15 PM

Speaking of Weapon X, I really want an Alpha Flight movie.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113266: Nov 30th 2019 at 8:05:04 PM

Honest question as someone who isn't really a comic reader. Are the Sentinels hard to pull off well? Like, do they ever get to be the focus of stories, or are they always a side thing that ends up being subverted by another villain?

Kaze ni Nare!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113267: Nov 30th 2019 at 8:10:57 PM

They should adapt the story where Cyclops convinces the Sentinels to go and fight the Sun

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113268: Nov 30th 2019 at 8:40:40 PM

The Sentinels ultimately are less characters in their own right and more an embodiment of genocide.

[up]Though that kind of backfired since one surviving Sentinel actually figured out a way to do that.

Edited by M84 on Dec 1st 2019 at 12:44:16 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#113269: Nov 30th 2019 at 8:44:41 PM

[up]

Really?

That dude is like, the patron saint of Sentinels.

I mean, if you can punch out the sun, you deserve props.

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113270: Nov 30th 2019 at 8:48:35 PM

I think it was less punching it out and more blocking sunlight from reaching Earth.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113271: Nov 30th 2019 at 8:49:32 PM

Ironically the X-Men have been appropriating the Sentinels for their own usage.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#113272: Nov 30th 2019 at 9:04:32 PM

[up]Since when?

Especially since the reaction to Sentinel Team O.N.E. was (understandably) get these death machines the !@#$% off mah lawn!

One Strip! One Strip!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113273: Nov 30th 2019 at 9:16:03 PM

One of the Sentinels that was sent to beat up the sun actually became a mutant after absorbing a shitton of solar radiation.

It came back to Earth and tried to do a scheme where it used the Almighty Power of the Mutant Uterus of Scarlet Witch to wipe out humanity.

And was thwarted when a mutant detector revealed to the other Sentinels that the boss Sentinel was a mutant. And then they beat it to death.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#113274: Nov 30th 2019 at 9:21:07 PM

I definitely think mutants in the MCU she not be persecuted to the extent of "the government occasionally tries to kill them all, and the public's largely okay with this". That happens in the comics as a result of Serial Escalation: every writer wants the latest threat to mutants to be bigger and more devastating than the last, until it becomes almost like a perpetual Holocaust.

There are plenty of ways you can use mutants as a metaphor for discriminated groups without having them be constantly on the verge of genocide.

I think good antagonists for the X-Men early on would be mutant traffickers, an organization like the Hellfire Club that kidnaps mutants with useful powers to be sold into slavery. While of course highly illegal, prejudice against mutants (along with a fair bit of corruption) means the governments don't go after these mutant traffickers as strongly as they need to, hence why a mutant vigilante group to step in.

Heck, simply going from humans wanting to get rid of mutants, to humans wanting to exploit mutants, would give the X-Men a fresh dynamic compared to the Fox films.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#113275: Dec 1st 2019 at 12:31:46 AM

Racism in the real world doesn't always lead to genocide. There are many insidious and mundane ways that racism and discrimination manifest themselves. I would like the X-Men to explore that more.


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