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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#113101: Nov 26th 2019 at 9:59:40 PM

Does Wanda count as Ultron's mom?

Honestly, if we're going to that well of metaphors, then Wanda would be Ultron's father (she provided the impetus for his creation) and Tony is his mother (did most of the actual work). Bruce and Thor would be doctors and nurses who helped.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113103: Nov 26th 2019 at 10:04:25 PM

Thanos would be like Godfather or Granddaddy or something like that.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113104: Nov 26th 2019 at 10:09:30 PM

Wouldn't that effectively mean Wanda was dating her own grandson or something?

Disgusted, but not surprised
tiamkara Let’s Have the Dark Courage to Sin Tonight from Augusta, GA Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Let’s Have the Dark Courage to Sin Tonight
#113105: Nov 26th 2019 at 10:17:51 PM

https://imgur.com/a/rfypfzS

i dunno who this Moon Knight/Marc Spector fella is but he seems like Batman if Batman was actually insane and not just Batman insane

“If you have a message for the devil give it to me and I’ll take it to him.”
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113106: Nov 26th 2019 at 10:23:00 PM

Marc Spector's got a bad case of DID and he may or may not be the avatar of a Mad God.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#113107: Nov 26th 2019 at 11:45:27 PM

Thanos is the doctor who prescribed fertility treatments.

Thor is the midwife.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#113108: Nov 26th 2019 at 11:54:26 PM

Alternate universe Thanos is a madman obsessed with creating utopia by doubling the population of the universe.

The Avengers are a collection of psychopomps dedicated to maintaining the path to the afterlife.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#113109: Nov 27th 2019 at 12:33:57 AM

"Mr. Stark, I don't feel so good..." *splits into clones*

Oh no, it's even worse!

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 27th 2019 at 12:36:18 PM

jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#113110: Nov 27th 2019 at 1:30:22 AM

Moon Knight actually pretty much IS "Batman, but actually crazy" - he's canonically mentally ill. At least one arc had an "asylum breakout" arc where the "reveal" was that the God Khonshu was fucking with him - but even right at the end it was left unclear just how much of it was real or just his imagination.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113111: Nov 27th 2019 at 2:26:22 AM

That said, a case could be made that Bruce Wayne is suffering from a lifelong case of clinical depression, if a high-functioning example. His dressing up in a batsuit to beat up crime and save lives could be considered sublimation: taking unwanted impulses and turning them into something good.

Edited by M84 on Nov 27th 2019 at 6:30:11 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
jakobitis Doctor of Doctorates from Somewhere, somewhen Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Doctor of Doctorates
#113112: Nov 27th 2019 at 3:01:43 AM

I'd tend to agree with the interpretation of Bruce Wayne as having some sort of mental illness but it's never been canonised whereas Marc Spector is officially a sufferer of D.I.D (though how accurate a representation tends to depend on the writer.)

Watchmen (the graphic novel, and to a lesser extent the new TV series too) goes as far as implying that ALL superheroes are to some extent mentally abnormal. I don't know if I would go that far but the psychology of people who dress in costumes and beat each other up is certainly an issue that tends to be ignored.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113113: Nov 27th 2019 at 3:07:00 AM

Bruce has never been diagnosed...but considering how many psychiatrists in Gotham are examples of the Psycho Psychologist, maybe that's for the best.

Disgusted, but not surprised
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#113114: Nov 27th 2019 at 5:36:40 AM

I like to imaginé that Wanda dosent try to think too much about visión creation because that Let into weird things

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113115: Nov 27th 2019 at 5:38:48 AM

He's a lot younger than her for one thing. Like, way younger.

Edited by M84 on Nov 27th 2019 at 9:39:02 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#113116: Nov 27th 2019 at 5:45:22 AM

I think Bruce is interesting in that sense because from my perspective there's definitely mental illness but he's absurdly high functioning to a degree most mentally ill people are not.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113117: Nov 27th 2019 at 6:11:28 AM

So I can be pretty bad at identifying the themes of a story. Since the people here are a lot better at it than me, I figured I'd ask.

When I watched Thor: Ragnarok, my main takeaway was thinking that I'd like the story a lot more if it focused more on one of its two main plots; the Hulk and Grandmaster stuff, or the Hela stuff on Asgard. To me they felt like two differnet stories stapled together and I thought they interrupted each other.

Was there some thematic overlap between the two that I missed? When I was learning about storytelling, one of the big things I took away was that side characters should generally serve the themes of the story. They can have their own arcs, but those arcs should weave into the overall tapestry of what the film is trying to say. They represent an aspect or an alternate offshoot of the dilemma the main character is facing. Was there anything like that with the Hulk?

Kaze ni Nare!
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#113118: Nov 27th 2019 at 6:31:49 AM

No there's a fair point to be made that the colonialism themes and overall Asgard plotline was somewhat harmed by the focus on the thor and hulk buddy comedy part of the film.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#113119: Nov 27th 2019 at 9:33:44 AM

I think it would have worked better if Sakaar was the place Hela had been imprisoned. She created a hellish torture realm filled with gladiator combat and slavery... and then when she left, the Grand Master prettied it up but otherwise left it exactly the same.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#113120: Nov 27th 2019 at 9:59:05 AM

When I was learning about storytelling, one of the big things I took away was that side characters should generally serve the themes of the story. They can have their own arcs, but those arcs should weave into the overall tapestry of what the film is trying to say. They represent an aspect or an alternate offshoot of the dilemma the main character is facing. Was there anything like that with the Hulk?

The events on Sakaar and Asgard are mostly disparate, but the side characters’s arcs do mirror Thor’s. Valkyrie wants to bury her past in drinking and crime rather than acknowledge the warrior she is. Loki keeps in his old ways of deception, making him all too predictable. Hulk and Banner refuse to cooperate. All of them are, like Thor, hindering themselves by denying the “less appealing” aspects of their person and become stronger when they do.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#113121: Nov 27th 2019 at 10:07:03 AM

Hela and her plot do come off like an afterthought, given how much more weight and strength is given to the arcs on Sakaar. A lot of things about the Asgard plot - including the colonialism aspect - come off as a bit half-assed in comparison as a result.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#113122: Nov 27th 2019 at 10:31:52 AM

One could make the argument that the stuff on Sakaar does play into the colonialism theme, since the Grandmaster has devoted so much of his resources into capturing and exploiting slaves for entertainment.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#113123: Nov 27th 2019 at 11:03:54 AM

Maybe, but the movie itself never bothers to connect the two, so nothing is ever done with the possibility.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#113124: Nov 27th 2019 at 11:18:11 AM

Re: Wanda and Ultron

He did, you know, kill her brother. That's also a connection.

And was she from the city he dropped from the sky?

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#113125: Nov 27th 2019 at 11:29:03 AM

At the very least, it was her country. Still pretty personal.

Wake me up at your own risk.

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