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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#113076: Nov 26th 2019 at 6:44:53 PM

[up][up] I guess YMMV.

I found it humorous, but it worked.

I feel the montage does a great job of communicating Dormammu first perceiving time, which sets Strange wining the bargain perfectly.

And the bargain is most certainly a triumphant moment for Strange.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113077: Nov 26th 2019 at 6:45:29 PM

But fine, I'll concede defeat. I'm really not good at arguing. Then again, I kinda want to be proven wrong. It'd be nice if I could be coerced into liking all these things. I just don't think I'll ever really enjoy these triumphant hero moments. I can accept them in most circumstances, but I don't think I'll ever truly like them the way I'm supposed to.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 2:47:24 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#113078: Nov 26th 2019 at 6:48:48 PM

The only part of the Dormammu scene that feels like intentional humor is Strange's Curse Cut Short when Dormammu's continent-sized arm comes down on him in his... third death?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113079: Nov 26th 2019 at 6:53:02 PM

I think I was expecting a compressed version of something like Edge of Tommorow, where I could almost viscerally feel the weight of time as the endless deaths start to wear him out and threaten to make him give up. And I never really felt that with Strange.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 2:53:50 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#113080: Nov 26th 2019 at 6:58:03 PM

I guess the reason it works so well for me is that I work in the opposite direction to Gninja, I'm overtly invested in the hero.

A lot of people feel a movie or even a hero are as good as their villain (or more accurately antagonist).

But while I recognize how a well written villain enhances a narrative, I often find they overtake the hero (a recurring problem in Batman movies for instance), which in turn ruins my enjoyment to a degree.

One reason I'm so invested in the MCU is that I find each hero and their struggles compelling.

So while everyone complains about the MCU's villain problem, I see them as little more than an obstacle for the hero to overcome (helped by the fact I know the vast majority are one and done deals).

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#113081: Nov 26th 2019 at 7:00:49 PM

[up][up]Do you have any examples of stories where heroes go up against cosmically-powerful enemies and win that you do like? Or would you prefer that stories not use cosmic-power-level enemies at all, because it cheapens them to have the heroes win? Or do you prefer that stories only use them when it takes a phenomenal effort to defeat them (like Thanos in Endgame, where they basically had to throw every heroic character in the MCU at him at once and it was only just enough)?

Just trying to get a handle on your preferred way of dealing with this tier of villains.

Edited by Galadriel on Nov 26th 2019 at 10:01:20 AM

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113082: Nov 26th 2019 at 7:08:17 PM

[up][up] The MCU has done so well that it's kinda clear that the villain problem is mainly a "me" thing.

I think when it comes to heroes, I have this weird disconnect where I find it hard to invest in someone who's REALLY competent. Audiences tend to adore competence. They love characters who are good at what they do. My favourite heroes tend to be side characters. People who have the freedom to struggle and fail a lot more often because they aren't the main character. They don't have to be cool or impressive as much. They can just have an arc that builds to them getting their moment, not because they're the poster boy and them beings awesome is kinda what the audience is there for. I adore struggle and failure. I have this obsession with the inherent unfairness of the world.

[up]I tend to not enjoy cosmic scale stuff that much. Threatening the Universe doesn't invest me in a story much more than threatening to blow up the solar system does. There's a plateu to how much I can be invested in the scale of a threat.

One of my hot takes is that I don't even think Lovecraft does Eldritch Horror as well as he's regarded as doing. A spawn of Yog-Sagoth is defeated by a librarian telling it to fuck off, then it gets killed by a guard dog. There's a story where Nyarlathotep runs away from the cops. Innsmouth is blown up by the military!

Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 5:02:32 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#113083: Nov 26th 2019 at 7:14:48 PM

I’m heavily into the Silmarillion fandom at the moment, so I hear you on that.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113084: Nov 26th 2019 at 7:23:20 PM

[up][up][up] Hmmm, do the Anti-spirals from Gurren Lagann count as Cosmic? Because I liked their defeat a lot.

Kaze ni Nare!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113085: Nov 26th 2019 at 7:26:05 PM

Their battle ended in them literally flinging galaxies like shurikens.

So yes they are cosmic.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113086: Nov 26th 2019 at 7:33:59 PM

[up] Then yeah, I liked their defeat. They had a gameplan and it almost worked, and defeating them required a lot of sacrifice. Their fight was like a battle of ideologies. They're wrong, but they had the power and resolve to back up their belief, and the fight lets them say their piece from a position of dominance without instantly rebuking them for it (their speech is amazing, I love it). The final push to defeat them strips away all the layers of the Gurren Lagann, and when they die they're allowed a last fleeting moment of dignity.

Kaze ni Nare!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113087: Nov 26th 2019 at 8:22:50 PM

[up][up]Nah, they weren't cosmic. Ultimately they were just people.

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113088: Nov 26th 2019 at 8:24:53 PM

But they did achieve cosmic levels of power & became something beyond just "people".

So is that a middle ground thing?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113089: Nov 26th 2019 at 8:27:57 PM

[up]So did the heroes. It's part of the setting — it's a universe where anybody sufficiently hotblooded (and who isn't an artificial lifeform like the Beastmen) can become a Reality Warper.

The real cosmic threat is the Spiral Nemesis — ie, the collapse of reality that occurs when too many people abuse the Spiral Power.

Edited by M84 on Nov 27th 2019 at 12:28:29 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113090: Nov 26th 2019 at 8:31:47 PM

Huh right......... Wait did they ever actually deal with the whole "Spiral Nemesis will happen when enough people are using Spiral energy"?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113091: Nov 26th 2019 at 8:34:46 PM

[up] I don't recall them ever showing exactly HOW they dealt with it, but humanity is definitely taking steps to do something at the end of the series.

Kaze ni Nare!
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#113092: Nov 26th 2019 at 8:37:31 PM

Hope they do a better job than the real world has with Global Warming.sad

One Strip! One Strip!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#113093: Nov 26th 2019 at 8:45:01 PM

Somebody convince the tides to bargain!

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113094: Nov 26th 2019 at 9:07:29 PM

Simon and cos philosophical argument is “we’ll prevent spiral nemesis because friendship or whatever” and the Anti-Spirals go “well you’ve killed us so I sure hope friendship or whatever works out for you”

It’s a very shoneny ending that doesn’t really answer the big questions posed but that’s okay because FRIENDSHIP

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113095: Nov 26th 2019 at 9:23:45 PM

I wonder if Ultron will ever come back. I know I was one of the rare few who liked him, but still.

Kaze ni Nare!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113096: Nov 26th 2019 at 9:25:29 PM

He was more or less a Tony Stark and Vision villain. Both of them are dead.

I guess he could reappear in the next Spidey movie, given that it seems like all of MCU Spidey's villains are going to be connected to Tony Stark.

Edited by M84 on Nov 27th 2019 at 1:27:30 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#113097: Nov 26th 2019 at 9:29:03 PM

Ulton with sunglasses is too powerful. D:

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113098: Nov 26th 2019 at 9:36:32 PM

MCU Doc Ock will literally be disguised Ultron with sunglasses.

Disgusted, but not surprised
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113099: Nov 26th 2019 at 9:36:49 PM

[up][up][up] He sorta had a thing with Wanda too. At least, that's a side of him that always stuck out to me in AOU. He seemed to genuinely like her, and it really hit him when she turned.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 5:39:20 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#113100: Nov 26th 2019 at 9:41:13 PM

Does Wanda count as Ultron's mom?


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