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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
But fine, I'll concede defeat. I'm really not good at arguing. Then again, I kinda want to be proven wrong. It'd be nice if I could be coerced into liking all these things. I just don't think I'll ever really enjoy these triumphant hero moments. I can accept them in most circumstances, but I don't think I'll ever truly like them the way I'm supposed to.
Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 2:47:24 PM
Kaze ni Nare!The only part of the Dormammu scene that feels like intentional humor is Strange's Curse Cut Short when Dormammu's continent-sized arm comes down on him in his... third death?
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!I think I was expecting a compressed version of something like Edge of Tommorow, where I could almost viscerally feel the weight of time as the endless deaths start to wear him out and threaten to make him give up. And I never really felt that with Strange.
Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 2:53:50 PM
Kaze ni Nare!I guess the reason it works so well for me is that I work in the opposite direction to Gninja, I'm overtly invested in the hero.
A lot of people feel a movie or even a hero are as good as their villain (or more accurately antagonist).
But while I recognize how a well written villain enhances a narrative, I often find they overtake the hero (a recurring problem in Batman movies for instance), which in turn ruins my enjoyment to a degree.
One reason I'm so invested in the MCU is that I find each hero and their struggles compelling.
So while everyone complains about the MCU's villain problem, I see them as little more than an obstacle for the hero to overcome (helped by the fact I know the vast majority are one and done deals).
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Do you have any examples of stories where heroes go up against cosmically-powerful enemies and win that you do like? Or would you prefer that stories not use cosmic-power-level enemies at all, because it cheapens them to have the heroes win? Or do you prefer that stories only use them when it takes a phenomenal effort to defeat them (like Thanos in Endgame, where they basically had to throw every heroic character in the MCU at him at once and it was only just enough)?
Just trying to get a handle on your preferred way of dealing with this tier of villains.
Edited by Galadriel on Nov 26th 2019 at 10:01:20 AM
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The MCU has done so well that it's kinda clear that the villain problem is mainly a "me" thing.
I think when it comes to heroes, I have this weird disconnect where I find it hard to invest in someone who's REALLY competent. Audiences tend to adore competence. They love characters who are good at what they do. My favourite heroes tend to be side characters. People who have the freedom to struggle and fail a lot more often because they aren't the main character. They don't have to be cool or impressive as much. They can just have an arc that builds to them getting their moment, not because they're the poster boy and them beings awesome is kinda what the audience is there for. I adore struggle and failure. I have this obsession with the inherent unfairness of the world.
I tend to not enjoy cosmic scale stuff that much. Threatening the Universe doesn't invest me in a story much more than threatening to blow up the solar system does. There's a plateu to how much I can be invested in the scale of a threat.
One of my hot takes is that I don't even think Lovecraft does Eldritch Horror as well as he's regarded as doing. A spawn of Yog-Sagoth is defeated by a librarian telling it to fuck off, then it gets killed by a guard dog. There's a story where Nyarlathotep runs away from the cops. Innsmouth is blown up by the military!
Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 5:02:32 PM
Kaze ni Nare!
Then yeah, I liked their defeat. They had a gameplan and it almost worked, and defeating them required a lot of sacrifice. Their fight was like a battle of ideologies. They're wrong, but they had the power and resolve to back up their belief, and the fight lets them say their piece from a position of dominance without instantly rebuking them for it (their speech is amazing, I love it). The final push to defeat them strips away all the layers of the Gurren Lagann, and when they die they're allowed a last fleeting moment of dignity.
So did the heroes. It's part of the setting — it's a universe where anybody sufficiently hotblooded (and who isn't an artificial lifeform like the Beastmen) can become a Reality Warper.
The real cosmic threat is the Spiral Nemesis — ie, the collapse of reality that occurs when too many people abuse the Spiral Power.
Edited by M84 on Nov 27th 2019 at 12:28:29 AM
Disgusted, but not surprisedSimon and cos philosophical argument is “we’ll prevent spiral nemesis because friendship or whatever” and the Anti-Spirals go “well you’ve killed us so I sure hope friendship or whatever works out for you”
It’s a very shoneny ending that doesn’t really answer the big questions posed but that’s okay because FRIENDSHIP
Forever liveblogging the Avengers

I found it humorous, but it worked.
I feel the montage does a great job of communicating Dormammu first perceiving time, which sets Strange wining the bargain perfectly.
And the bargain is most certainly a triumphant moment for Strange.