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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#113026: Nov 26th 2019 at 1:32:05 PM

I saw the Thor and Darryl thing that came with the Blu-ray and I kind of like it more than the actual movie.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113027: Nov 26th 2019 at 3:39:24 PM

[up][up][up] I never really liked the way Strange beat Dormammu. It's really clever, but it also makes the big eldritch being look like a joke.

What I mean is: it's kinda played for laughs, which feels off to me.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 11:41:03 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#113028: Nov 26th 2019 at 3:46:58 PM

As much is wrong with that movie, I do like that Strange's clever trick there and how it held up his oath to not kill. Much more creative than just punches and blasts at a big CG thing for half an hour like usual.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 26th 2019 at 3:49:12 AM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113029: Nov 26th 2019 at 3:48:04 PM

[up][up] True to the comics though

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113030: Nov 26th 2019 at 3:53:58 PM

[up] I suppose so. Making villains (especially ones that are supposed to be ultra powerful) look like losers has never sat well with me (for obvious reasons)

I'm willing to admit I'm just really weird though. It's certainly an iconic ending that'll never be forgotten.

[up][up] I think my preferred ending would've been the exact same trick, only with more focus put on how horrifyingly painful it would be for Strange to suffer death millions of times over, and how he's completely willing to go through it to save the world.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 11:56:09 AM

Kaze ni Nare!
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#113031: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:01:23 PM

It's kind of weird to hear because if anything I feel like the ending makes Dormammu look more menacing. Doctor Strange loses straight-up in the climax as he realizes he's outmatched and thus has to think on his feet and pull out clever gambits involving time loops like himself in the comics.

As the dialogue itself points out:

"You will never win!"

"No. But I can lose over...and over....and over again. And that makes you my prisoner."

I've always said Strange is a character who works best already established as this Master of the Mystic Arts figure. No one is interested about him as a novice, and the ending of Doctor Strange exemplifies that (and indeed, in every appearance of his since he has been shown as the legit Master of the Mystic Arts). His wit kept up too, like with him running the world's finest Gambit Roulette to stop Thanos.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113032: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:02:40 PM

It’s gonna be interesting to see what he’s prepared for when Dormamu eventually comes back.

Also hopefully Dormamu when he fully appears he has the fire head.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 26th 2019 at 4:04:30 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#113033: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:03:16 PM

The ending of that movie was the most perfect Dr. Strange-y way to resolve a problem they could've picked, and I wish the movie itself had little more of that charm and creativity (beyond the visuals, which were amazing as well).

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113034: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:07:41 PM

That’s the thing about Dr Strange

He’s usually outclassed by his foes so he has to trick them or be more clever

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113035: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:09:53 PM

[up][up][up][up] To me a villain is threatening not just based on what they do but how the film portrays them. Yes, objectively, the ending doesn't make Dormammu look bad at all. But I think the framing and the tone of the scene does.

But then, I'm one of those people who finds the lighthearted jokey tone of a lot of the MCU tiring. You know, a crazy person who hates fun.

[up] That description just makes me want someone to outsmart the hell out of him honestly.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 12:12:32 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#113036: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:11:48 PM

I do hope that Multiverse of Madness touches on Strange's potential guilt over how the sole eventual successful outcome of the battle against Thanos resulted in not just the (temporary) deaths of half the universe but also the not-so-temporary deaths of Tony and Natasha, while also bringing up his oath.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#113037: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:15:06 PM

[up][up]He got outsmarted by Thor when his hammer wrecked a lot of his stuff in Thor: Ragnarok. Good enough for ya?

Edited by fredhot16 on Nov 26th 2019 at 4:17:01 AM

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GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113038: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:16:13 PM

[up] I mean a villain outsmarting him. I've had my fill of the heroes one upping and fighting each other.

Kaze ni Nare!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113039: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:20:14 PM

Villains have outsmarted him multiple times in the comics

Of course, at the end of the day he has to win or the earth will be taken over by a demonic overlord forever

But yeah, he’s had his setbacks and been punked by villains

In the most recent Dr Strange comic on unlimited, Dormamu outwits Strange and tricks him into feeding Galactus a magical planet that makes Galactus ally with Dormamu

Strange will find some way out of this but Dormamu got him good

Edited by Bocaj on Nov 26th 2019 at 7:25:07 AM

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113040: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:21:15 PM

I'm curious if they might ever adapt that the magic goes away arc written by Jason Aaron.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113041: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:28:26 PM

[up][up] Well, if Strange is going to be a chessmaster going forward then I'll just have to put up with it and hope for moments like that.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 12:29:24 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#113042: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:52:43 PM

When against beings with incomprehensible raw power, wit is often the best and most believable weapon.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#113043: Nov 26th 2019 at 4:54:15 PM

The Last Days of Magic. [up][up][up]. It's a solid arc but they have barely even established magic. Too soon to kill it off.

Also, Doctor Strange is thoroughly outclassed physically and magically by his antagonists, so he relies on his wits and then you say you want him to be outsmarted? How's he supposed to win?

Edited by Gaon on Nov 26th 2019 at 4:56:09 AM

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#113044: Nov 26th 2019 at 5:02:52 PM

> How's he supposed to win?

Clearly he has to mathematically prove they are wrong

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113045: Nov 26th 2019 at 5:02:57 PM

[up][up] Generally, when I see a character who has a specialty, I want that specialty to be tested. If someone is strong, I want to see someone else who's stronger. If someone is smart, I want to see someone smarter. To see them handle the problem in a way they're not used to. Get them out of their comfort zone.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 1:03:16 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
ViperMagnum357 Since: Mar, 2012
#113046: Nov 26th 2019 at 5:07:01 PM

[up][up][up]That. Strange's whole shtick is that he is a Normal Fish in a Tiny Pond who can and usually will steamroll most of the supers on Earth or many other planets; but he is called upon to fight foes who can and will flatten him in a direct confrontation, so he uses his wits and trickery. There is a definite strand of Cosmic Horror inherent in Strange's stories; where he is hilariously outclassed in direct confrontations and even with favorable fields is usually unable to win more than a draw or stalemate that lets the universe spin on a little longer.

This is then reflected upon the rest of the marvel universe; where the guy who could take on 95% of Earth's supers at the same time and win handily, is busy in his own adventures as the proverbial Puny Earthling-probing the darkness by candlelight and always one step away from a Fate Worse than Death.

Edited by ViperMagnum357 on Nov 26th 2019 at 8:07:13 AM

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113047: Nov 26th 2019 at 5:26:57 PM

[up] Honest question: doesn't it kind of undermine the eldritch cosmic horrors he's facing if he can just outsmart them all the time?

I'm reminded of Dresden Files, where even though Dresden is normally fighting creatures that are objectively far stronger than him, he always wins through cunning or manipulating the world's magic systems. The end result to me is that his rogues don't feel all that impressive, because for all their power he still wins in the end. It's worse in some ways because they have a titanic advantage. They SHOULD beat him based on the discrepancy in power, yet they can't. With a character who's around his level it makes sense why Strange can beat them regularly. But if everything he fights is comically overpowered, they SHOULD win sometimes, right?

Edited by GNinja on Nov 26th 2019 at 1:31:03 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#113048: Nov 26th 2019 at 5:32:41 PM

Once the universe was blown up on Strange’s watch and he had to entreat the embodiment of Eternity to restore it

Guy loses sometimes but generally, exceptions excepted, when the fate of the world is at stake he needs to win because that’s how superhero narratives work

The bad guy can’t succeed in blowing up New York, that’s where everybody lives

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#113049: Nov 26th 2019 at 5:39:31 PM

Considering his opponents are universe-destroying Eldritch Abominations, he really can't afford a single loss.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#113050: Nov 26th 2019 at 5:40:35 PM

The only problem with Doctor Strange being outwitted by a smarter opponent is then you need a new way for Strange to win in the end if he can't outwit his foe, and that only really leaves being stronger. Which is kind of a crappy resolution.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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