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Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
I read one fanfic where after Thanos takes the Mind Stone from Vision's head, the remnants of Ultron within him end up taking over his body. And that was an idea I thought would be really cool to see in Endgame, even if it probably wouldn't have added much to the story.
Ultron had a lot of good elements for a villain, but I didn't think he worked as a whole in the film. My biggest issue is that his motives are kind of muddled and it takes a while for the film to spell out what he's trying to accomplish. Ultron wants to force humanity to change so they become something better. But it's kind of a big leap to see why he thinks causing a mass extinction event is the way to do it.
In hindsight, he's almost like a prototype for Thanos, a villain who sees his mass slaughter as a force for good and much needed change. Both of them spend a lot of time pontificating on their actions and world views. But Thanos had more understandable motives and means of accomplishing his goals, whereas I never quite understood what Ultron wanted to do after he succeeded. Guide the remnants of humanity in his Vision body? I think? I feel another draft was needed to iron out the details of his plans.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Nov 20th 2019 at 9:23:07 AM
You guys feel like the next “saga” is gonna be based on the mystical side of the Marvel universe like this past one was about the cosmic? Seems like it considering we’re getting Strange 2, Shang Chi, Blade, and a series about Scarlet Witch.
“If you have a message for the devil give it to me and I’ll take it to him.”Before Infinity War, a part of me always wished that Vision and Thanos would share a last dialogue echoing Vision's last chat with Ultron. Like Thanos would approach a obviously outmatched Vision with some sympathy in him.
Something like:
- Thanos: You're afraid.Vision: Of death.Thanos: How human of you.Vision (chuckles): I suppose it is.Thanos: An odd species. They think life outbalances death in the cosmic calculus. They try to avoid it. But they can't escape it. Not without me. Not without what I'm about to do. It burdens me to know you won't be there to see it.Vision: You're unbearably naive.Thanos (chuckles): I suppose I am.
(Vision charges Thanos and gets blasted to death, echoing Ultron's own demise)
Something about Vision echoing Ultron's Famous Last Words as his own appealed to me.
I also kinda wanted some dialog counterpart to Thanos's chat with The Gardener in Infinity Quest (the story where Thanos gathers the stones), who is the only member of the previous Stone holders for whom Thanos seems to share a legitimate admiration, clearly disliking what he's about to do and basically giving him a heartfelt eulogy after killing him. In the Infinity duology the closest Thanos gets to that is "You have my respects, Stark" and his brief chat with Doctor Strange.
Edited by Gaon on Nov 20th 2019 at 7:21:52 AM
"All you Fascists bound to lose."By that point in the movie, Thanos is done talking. He just wants to get the damn stone already. He doesn't get chatty again until after he rips the Time Stone out of Vision.
You were talking about using time travel as an excuse to bring Ultron back into the MCU.
Edited by M84 on Nov 20th 2019 at 11:24:14 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedNoticeably in Thanos' final moments he & Steve share a look.
Its a brief look but you can theorize Steve's expression as maybe at least partly a look of understanding as he too knows what’s it’s like to lose a war for a cause you believed in or thought of was right.
He feels sorry for him because he can relate or pity him on a fundamental fucked up level, heh.
Edited by slimcoder on Nov 20th 2019 at 7:36:21 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."Although he does stop to chat briefly with Wanda ("I lost more today than you can know. But now is not time to mourn. Now, there's no time at all..") before killing Vision a second time. I do agree though that as the final film is structured, it'd be rough to establish a dialogue like this without disrupting the flow a bit (even literally as Thanos would have to presumably due some time stone shenanigans to keep up this as Talking Is a Free Action), but I'd still have liked to see something similar.
There's a few directions I'd have taken the character of Thanos that the films didn't. One of them would be making Thanos completely unravel in Endgame as he realizes his plan failed completely and he sacrificed the only person he vaguely cared about basically to soothe his ego, so he'd be trying to bring her back and in the process be putting the other half of the universe in the firing line. But that'd be a completely different movie to Endgame.
I'll also be damned if I didn't miss the Hell out of the Thanos-Steve dialogue from the comics ("Bold sentiments from a man about to die." "I've lived my life by those sentiments. They're well-worth dying for.")
Edited by Gaon on Nov 20th 2019 at 7:41:40 AM
"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Goku feels like that because he's a Blood Knight (it's In the Blood for pure Saiyans). Batman feels like that only because he doesn't like violating his Thou Shalt Not Kill rule for anyone — and even then he's at times felt pleased at the thought of Joker dying.
Edited by M84 on Nov 20th 2019 at 11:49:08 PM
Disgusted, but not surprisedGoku doesn't spare people because he feels bad for them. Frieza excepted, he does it because he wants them to train up, get stronger, and then come back and threaten the Earth again. That way, he'll have an even better fight later. As M84 pointed out, it's about Goku being a Blood Knight with questionable morals and terrible priorities.
I say "Frieza excepted" because that was a Cruel Mercy, which isn't quite the same thing but still isn't exactly Cry for the Devil either. And that bit him in the ass so hard that he went back to "F*cking kill this asshole" afterwards and never looked back.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 20th 2019 at 10:40:44 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Goku doesn't start to grow out of this until the Cell Saga which is him at his worst on this front (going so far as to project his Blood Knight nature on Gohan who is not a Blood Knight and even giving Cell a Senzu bean).
Edited by M84 on Nov 21st 2019 at 1:44:13 AM
Disgusted, but not surprisedAnyways, I don't think Steve really has a lot of sympathy to spare for Thanos. On the evil scale, dude's about 50 kilonazis. And Steve fought actual Nazis.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 20th 2019 at 10:59:35 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

I was JUST thinking earlier I really hope Ultron pops back up somewhere down the line. Maybe now that time travel is established we can get the MCU version of the actual Age of Ultron story.
Would be fitting considering Susan Storm and Wolverine are at the heart of it all.
“If you have a message for the devil give it to me and I’ll take it to him.”