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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#112526: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:00:04 AM

I’d argue that Thor was more than hot and dumb in Ragnarok. He actually is pretty crafty in the whole movie

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#112527: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:19:50 AM

I haven't seen TDW, but I've basically seen people describe it as a largely mediocre and forgettable film with an awful villain, bolstered mostly just by Loki.

There are definitely some criticisms to be made about Ragnarok, that being said. It's a genuinely funny and entertaining film, but I felt it kind of sacrificed fleshing out the Asgard and colonialism theme of the plot in the name of being a Thor/Hulk buddy comedy.

If people are more lenient on Ragnarok for being comedic, it's probably just because Ragnarok has better jokes/is funnier.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#112528: Nov 16th 2019 at 6:55:38 AM

I’d say that’s an accurate description of both movies. Loki was the only worthwhile part of Thor: The Dark World.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#112529: Nov 16th 2019 at 7:08:26 AM

I wouldn’t say that. What about when Rocket Raccoon showed up for an, at the time, very confusing cameo?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#112530: Nov 16th 2019 at 7:13:23 AM

I love how Endgame basically undermined the central conflict of that film by showing that the Asgardians could've just extracted the Aether using a space-syringe.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#112531: Nov 16th 2019 at 7:15:05 AM

That’s future technology that the Asgardians didn’t have access to

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#112532: Nov 16th 2019 at 7:28:08 AM

Sophia Di Martino in talks to co-star in the Disney+ Loki show.

Rumor is she's Lady Loki.

Edited by LordVatek on Nov 16th 2019 at 10:28:21 AM

This song needs more love.
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#112533: Nov 16th 2019 at 3:11:05 PM

Dark World was bland enough that it ended the semi serious version of Thor.

Just Makima.
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#112534: Nov 16th 2019 at 3:52:07 PM

Pity his new personality was "irreverent manipulative asshole".

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#112535: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:38:19 PM

[up]

Are you talking about Thor?

How is he manipulative...or an asshole?

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#112536: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:47:37 PM

It's about tone.

Dark World tries to have a grim and serious tone, so the deviations into wacky comedy don't really fit. Ragnarok came to party with strobe lights and disco balls right from the start, so its silliness feels appropriate.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#112537: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:47:43 PM

[up][up]See this, and there's also how he tries to play Bruce and the Hulk off of each other to get what he wants from them.

[up] But when the title conflict is about the destruction of the world, starting out with disco balls and strobe lights feels like even more of a tonal disconnect.

Edited by Ayasugi on Nov 16th 2019 at 7:50:58 AM

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#112538: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:48:32 PM

So I just saw Dora and the lost city of gold...

... Ok, hear me out first.

And it just made me want Isabella Moner as America Chavez. She just had such a nice energy and honesty in her role, that I just woild love to see her in a Marvel movie, and I think it could help make America likeable, after all her disastrous writing on the comics.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#112539: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:51:34 PM

Isn't America Chavez like....super buff?

Or is that just her design on Marvel Rising: Secret Warriors?

One Strip! One Strip!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#112540: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:51:38 PM

[up][up]I can think of a few dozen superheroes we need before Chavez. The X-Men for starters.

I’ve said it before, I would rather a hero get a Race Lift to Latino before seeing Chavez. I don’t think Latino/a/X readers like the character that much TBH.

[down]This is admittedly why I don’t think you need to cast for She-Hulk, so much as you cast for Jennifer Walters, as John Byrne said. You need someone to reflect the personality, then get them to the gym.

Edited by Beatman1 on Nov 16th 2019 at 7:53:58 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#112541: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:52:47 PM

[up][up] And Monet can't buff up?

She can get ripped homie.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#112542: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:55:26 PM

[up][up]Then you don’t know a lot of Latinxs. tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 16th 2019 at 4:55:36 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#112543: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:55:59 PM

[up][up]

Fair enough.

[up][up][up]

Yeah, well I think Peter Quill should have his ass kicked forever.

Do you know what we both have in common?

We're biased.

All it takes is getting rid of the stuff that made her suck in the first place. A character should not be judged by a bad run, or when they are written badly (I think she was better in Young Avengers apparently).

....And yeah, my continued grudge against Quill means I'm not taking my own advice. I'll do that when he earns back my respect.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Nov 16th 2019 at 5:56:16 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#112544: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:58:39 PM

But when the title conflict is about the destruction of the world, starting out with disco balls and strobe lights feels like even more of a tonal disconnect.

Only if you get really hung up on titles for some reason?

The Guardians of the Galaxy-style trailers for Ragnarok made it pretty clear what the film was going to be like. Thor's comedic whirly-doos in the opening scene with Surtur, meanwhile, was a pretty solid tone-setting moment. It'd be very difficult to somehow miss what Ragnarok was going to be like.

The Dark World, meanwhile, has pretensions of being a very serious epic fantasy tale. The opening scene is a solemn recounting of Odin's very serious war against the very dark and super wicked forces of Svartalfheim. You are expected to take this all deadly seriously, and then Dr. Selvig takes his pants off and runs around with science doodads. That kind of scene just doesn't work in the sort of movie Dark World is set up to be.

Like.

When Lex Luthor peed in a jar and put it on a Senator's desk, audiences were like, "What the f*ck is this weird and strange scene doing in this movie?"

But when Peter Quill challenged Ronan to a Footloose dance-off in the climax of the goddamn film, it was hailed as a crowning moment of equal parts Awesome and Funny.

Because Guardians was the kind of movie where you can do shit like that, and BVS was not. It's all about tone.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#112545: Nov 16th 2019 at 4:59:57 PM

As has been said before the majority of America's unsavory traits is confined to that one badly written series of hers.

I read Al Ewing's Ultimates which had her there in a major role & there was nothing particularly unlikable about her.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 16th 2019 at 5:00:44 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#112546: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:00:19 PM

[up]x4 - I dunno, I see people complain mostly when compared to the representation of other groups. Falcon gets to be the successor to Cap, Black Panther is The Good King, Rhodey is Tony’s conscience, and they all get to be heroes in the conventional sense. Chavez? Not so much.

[up]x3 - Yeah, I am biased I suppose. But there are so many heroes in that group if one doesn’t like Quill. Not so much Latino rep.

Edited by Beatman1 on Nov 16th 2019 at 8:06:54 AM

eligram Since: Sep, 2009 Relationship Status: In denial
#112547: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:09:45 PM

Yeah, because instead of taking advantage of the success of the MCU while it's hot to improve an already latin heroine and rise her to an A-list heroine, like it did with another C-lister heroes/properties (Guardians Of The Galaxy anyone?), let's just racelift another hero and hope it sticks?

I'm a latino myself and I wouldn't like that Marvel racelift anyone before using one of the few latin heroes they have before.

And as it has been told before, the movies are know for discarding all the bad parts and improving the good ones of their comics. And is not like they can't make her a conventional heroine.

Edited by eligram on Nov 16th 2019 at 9:10:08 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#112548: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:13:10 PM

Why all the hate for America Chavez?

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#112549: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:13:37 PM

Add me in as thinking Moner would be very good as America. Personally I think I'd like to see her crossovers tone down her aggression a tad (Marvel Rising goes too out of its way to make her antisocial), and I also think she needs more comics material or else her adaptation might run out off stuff too fast (Marvel, give her a solo or novel written by Elizabeth Acevedo or Adriana Herrera), but actress-wise Moner is a great choice as the standout of Dora.

[up]TL, DR, her solo by Gabby Rivera wasn't very good but it also hit enough diversity checkmarks that it ticked off the Comicsgate side of fandom way beyond any other bad series that comes out each year. It's like if Thor: The Dark World had a gay kiss in it and thus got trashtalked like it's Batman and Robin. Since then, America was okay in her West Coast Avengers and Marvel #1000 appearances.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 16th 2019 at 5:19:36 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#112550: Nov 16th 2019 at 5:14:20 PM

[up][up] She had like one badly written series & now people are saying she's unsalvegable.

As if Captain America or Spider-Man didn't have their shit runs every now & then.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 16th 2019 at 5:14:35 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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