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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#112201: Nov 8th 2019 at 2:17:54 PM

Well, Jen in the Slott series was also accused of retreating into a weird green form to avoid emotional responsibility.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 8th 2019 at 2:19:36 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#112202: Nov 8th 2019 at 2:22:19 PM

Both of those writers are great and bode well for how good those shows might be.

Jeremy Slater also created the TV show The Exorcist, which was way better than it had any right to be. He also wrote the first draft of the 2005 Fantastic Four movie, which was said to be very different from how it ended up. And I really enjoyed The Umbrella Academy.

Jessica Gao has shown she really does understand smart humor — not just with the Pickle Rick episode of Rick and Morty, but she was also the writer and EP on the second season of Take My Wife, which was a great show starring Cameron Esposito and Rhea Butcher that was on the short-lived Seeso streaming service.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#112203: Nov 8th 2019 at 2:25:12 PM

"'And'? What more do you want tacked on to this? I turned myself into a Hulk, and the Chitauri invasion was an inside job?"
"Was it?"
"Who cares, Betty? Global acts of terrorism happen every day. Uh, here's something that's never happened before: I'm a Hulk. I'm She-Hulk Jennifer!"

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#112204: Nov 8th 2019 at 2:28:49 PM

[up] Wait wouldn't the Chitari Invasion be an inter-galactic act of terrorism?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#112205: Nov 8th 2019 at 2:46:12 PM

Maybe interstellar rather than intergalactic? Hard to say.

Leviticus 19:34
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#112206: Nov 8th 2019 at 6:01:48 PM

Ghost still counts as the Big Bad since she's the one ultimately driving the conflict in the movie. This also makes her The Heavy of the movie as well.

The Kree Supreme Intelligence is a more hands-off Big Bad who gets less screen-time, but it is still the leader of the antagonistic Kree and it's clearly the one calling the shots behind Yon-Rogg. The Deleted Scene which has it mocking Yon-Rogg would have made it clearer (though it would also have distracted from the movie's main themes). That Deleted Scene is also why I hesitate to count the Supreme Intelligence as an example of a female Big Bad, since the form it takes when talking to Yon-Rogg is Yon-Rogg himself, as a mockery of Yon-Rogg's narcissism.

Edited by M84 on Nov 8th 2019 at 10:02:58 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#112207: Nov 8th 2019 at 6:10:43 PM

Okay so someone mentioned Yon is a Scrappy so I checked Captain Marvel’s YMMV page out of curiosity & wow there are a shit ton of stuff under They Wasted A Perfectly Good Plot/Character.

There’s so much, I don’t think a lot of those are even valid.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#112208: Nov 8th 2019 at 6:14:04 PM

It still amuses me how mocking and silly the Supreme Intelligence is for an abstract being. Like verbally imitating Yon-Rogg in the deleted scene, or digging its clothes as Mar-Vell.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#112209: Nov 8th 2019 at 6:16:27 PM

[up][up][up] In the finished product, I'd agree the Supreme Intelligence is more Bigger Bad than Big Bad. It may be responsible for everything, but it's not doing anything in the plot itself. It's like Palpatine in The Empire Strikes Back.

I could buy an argument for Ghost either way. The conflict isn't really about her as much as she is one of the many things that are complicating it, and progresses on its own just as much as it does due to her influence. But at the same time, she's is the primary antagonistic force that does kick off the reasons why the plot begins spiraling in the first place, and has the most active role the heroes have to counter.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 8th 2019 at 6:51:05 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#112210: Nov 8th 2019 at 6:17:00 PM

Remember that the Supreme Intelligence (in the comics at least) is formed from the minds of once living Kree. It makes sense that it would still have some emotions.

Disgusted, but not surprised
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#112211: Nov 8th 2019 at 6:44:14 PM

But at the same time, she's is the primary antagonistic force that does kick off the reasons why the plot begins spiraling in the first place, and has the most active role the heroes have to counter.
Eh, is she, though? The plot is basically "Hank and Hope want to rescue Janet from the Quantum Realm, but keep getting interference from other characters." Those other characters include Ghost, yes, but also Sonny Burch. In fact, Burch is the one that sets off the plot by getting Hope the component and then refusing to give it to her, even though Ghost is the one that steals it.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#112212: Nov 8th 2019 at 9:06:33 PM

I don't know if someone mentioned this recently, but it would've been nice if Endgame showed Goliath and Ghost at some point in the final battle, explaining Ghost as also having been snapped. Because if she wasn't snapped, she'd probably be dead for realsies without any of the Ant-Man gang to get her what she needed.

Also, having Goliath there would explain the error of having Giant-Lang fighting in the background while Scott's supposed to be repairing the Hot Rod Time Machine with Hope.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#112213: Nov 8th 2019 at 9:13:02 PM

There really isn't a "Goliath" in the MCU. There's Bill Foster, who was part of a project with Hank called "Goliath" where he was able to use Pym particles to grow to twenty-one feet. But he never grew any larger than that and we have no indication he still has the suit. He's also in his fifties or sixties, too.

Edited by alliterator on Nov 8th 2019 at 9:17:14 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#112214: Nov 8th 2019 at 9:14:04 PM

EDIT: Nevermind. [nja]

Edited by chasemaddigan on Nov 8th 2019 at 12:16:03 PM

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#112215: Nov 8th 2019 at 9:20:22 PM

I know. I just didn't see it as an important detail in the context of that post or the final battle.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#112216: Nov 8th 2019 at 9:26:11 PM

Huh now that he's mentioned, Foster is kinda like a Big Bad at least because he guides & advises Ghost on her quest.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#112217: Nov 8th 2019 at 10:11:11 PM

To help her save her life?

Not everything has to have a "Big Bad", and not everyone fits the role.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#112218: Nov 8th 2019 at 10:13:30 PM

Yeah, I didn’t see anyone in that film as a big bad, just working against circumstances for their own ends. There was the crime boss but he was small scale.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#112219: Nov 8th 2019 at 10:15:41 PM

I said kinda.

And that's ignoring the illegal steps they took in their quest which involved kidnapping innocentish people.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#112220: Nov 8th 2019 at 10:28:57 PM

Because if she wasn't snapped, she'd probably be dead for realsies without any of the Ant-Man gang to get her what she needed.

Ava survived from childhood to adulthood without any healing, so she possibly could’ve lasted five years seeing as Janet recently “recharged” her.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#112221: Nov 9th 2019 at 11:10:08 AM

Oh, yeah. Fair enough. I guess I didn't really remember the details of that movie enough.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#112222: Nov 9th 2019 at 3:26:33 PM

Me neither.

It wasn't bad or anything, it just kinda came and went.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#112223: Nov 9th 2019 at 3:51:17 PM

[up][up][up]I dont think she could surive that long, in fact tension of the movie hinge on the idea she is getting worst and need the fix soon.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#112224: Nov 9th 2019 at 3:54:09 PM

But the movie ended with her getting a fix from Janet.

Even if its not permanent, it was a complete revitalization.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#112225: Nov 9th 2019 at 3:57:10 PM

The movie end with Janet taking the particle necesary for her, then sending Scott and them the snap happens.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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