TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#112026: Nov 4th 2019 at 7:27:01 PM

My taste range is wide enough that I can appreciate the finer things in life (ten year old vintage red wines, Wagyu beef steak, Lobster ,King Crab legs, etc.), the middle stuff (Applebee's, Chili's, Chipotle, TGIF, etc.), and the stuff below that (Mickey D's, Burger King, KFC, Taco Bell, Dunkin' Donuts, etc.).

Same goes for movies. I can appreciate the classics, the more trashy stuff, and the studio and market driven franchise stuff.

[up]Eh, I was never big on ordering sides with my pizza. I usually prefer just ordering multiple different pizzas with different toppings. Besides, nowadays there are places that serve pizza that has the fried popcorn chicken on it. I also wouldn't get mozarella cheesesticks as a side dish with pizza because it's kind of redundant — pizza already has melted mozarella cheese and tomato sauce. Get the fried zucchini slices or jalapeno poppers if they serve'em instead.

@Anomalocaris 20 Yeah, Applebee's isn't the greatest among those mid-to-lower tier chain restaurants. I mainly just like their baby-back ribs. Otherwise I'd go to TGIF or IHOP.

Edited by M84 on Nov 4th 2019 at 11:36:42 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#112027: Nov 4th 2019 at 7:35:48 PM

Why do we care what Scorcese think? Why do people keeping asking Scorcese about the MCU, even when he has made his opinions clear? Whether Martin Scorcese likes MCU films or not should not be treated as any kind validation.

Edited by Nightwire on Nov 4th 2019 at 7:36:35 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#112028: Nov 4th 2019 at 7:39:02 PM

[up][up] That may be true but the shit tastes damn fine. Plus I think cheese or garlic balls taste sufficiently different enough from pizza.

Did not know about chicken toppings though.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#112029: Nov 4th 2019 at 7:40:57 PM

[up][up]I'm guessing it's because the writers and directors working in the MCU may have grown up watching movies like Goodfellas and were inspired to be filmmakers as a result.

So maybe it stung a little to hear that someone they looked up to and considered an inspiration thinks that their work isn't "real" cinema.

[up]If I had to pick a side dish for pizza, I'd go with fried veggies like the zucchini I already mentioned. I'd also recommend fried cauliflower or mushrooms or broccoli. Along with ranch or blue cheese or spinach artichoke dip.

Edited by M84 on Nov 4th 2019 at 11:46:02 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#112030: Nov 4th 2019 at 7:52:16 PM

I don't have any idea which of the Marvel films Scorcese tried to watch; safest bets include Iron Man and/or The Avengers. For all I know he could be talking about Ant-Man while I'm talking about Thor Ragnarok. I also find it misleading that he links this article to assert Marvel films lack integrity from "market research", when the article actually tells a very different account about how Marvel was willing to put their financial security on the line in exchange for getting to make Iron Man the way they wanted it.

My response on the Marvel films themselves is that there's a number I can point to being little more than products and others that boast a fantastic amount of creativity and ideas explored about human potential. That said, I think it's worth noting that Scorcese remarks that he would be willing to dismiss them as harmless fun if it weren't the increasing media stifling accompanying them. Theme parks can certainly have artistic creativity and emotional transformation, but defending that might feel sour to neighbors having their living conditions squeezed by the encroaching rollercoasters. Saying I enjoyed Civil War is easy, saying whether that was worth pushing the Lumberjanes movie out of development because it didn't fit The Brand™ is hard.

As for pizza, Tony's a few blocks down tastes great but sometimes is too hot, Costco's is filling but sometimes too much, and I love The Black Cat's deep dish Brick and Morty but it's so far away. tongue

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 4th 2019 at 8:01:51 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#112031: Nov 4th 2019 at 7:56:04 PM

I just had Costco pizza the other day. Yeah, those slices taste fine but are pretty filling. Especially if you order two. But I was feeling peckish since I had skipped lunch.

Never really got into deep dish Chicago style pizza. New York style all the way for me.

Edited by M84 on Nov 4th 2019 at 11:57:26 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#112032: Nov 4th 2019 at 7:57:03 PM

I tend to roll up a slice of ham & cheese as a snack.

Used to dunk them in mayo but I stopped that when I found out it was giving me zits.

I also have Pollo Tropical as my lunch during the longer class days.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 4th 2019 at 7:59:18 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#112033: Nov 4th 2019 at 7:58:08 PM

I'm a fan of Hawaiian pizza myself.

Sh-t sounds like it'd be terrible but you try it and it's like... whoa.

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#112034: Nov 4th 2019 at 7:58:34 PM

[up][up][up][up]I outgrew theme parks a while ago. I realized I didn't actually enjoy spending hours in line and eating overpriced cotton candy and corn dogs.

[up]That's the pizza I ordered at Costco earlier. I like it just fine, though my personal favorite is actually classic Cheese Pizza. Too bad the nearby Costco doesn't serve individual slices of Cheese Pizza — you gotta order a whole pie. And I wasn't that hungry (though yes I have eaten an entire Costco pizza in one sitting in the past).

Saying I enjoyed Civil War is easy, saying whether that was worth pushing the Lumberjanes movie out of development because it didn't fit The Brand™ is hard.

That's the issue isn't it. It's wrong to call the MCU films not "real" cinema, but it's not wrong to be concerned that the MCU films (and other "franchise" films) could become the only cinema around.

I don't mind Applebee's and other chain restaurants, but I don't want them to be the only restaurants near me.

Edited by M84 on Nov 5th 2019 at 12:06:24 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#112035: Nov 4th 2019 at 9:21:25 PM

So, from everything I'm hearing right now, Martin Scorcese doesn't like Applebee's and Costco pizza? THAT FOUL FIEND!

(On a slightly more serious note: the abundance of MCU movies does not mean that movies with a singular director's vision are being lost at all, just like the abundance of Western movies or gangster movies or film noir meant that indie directors couldn't continue to direct indie movies. The "auteur" still exists, they just don't make huge blockbuster movies anymore because studios have realized that those movies don't make tons of money. But auteur directors do and will continue to make smaller films with smaller budgets and some directors will even crossover and do franchise films and their own indie films, like Taika Waititi with Thor: Ragnarok and Jojo Rabbit.)

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#112036: Nov 4th 2019 at 9:22:11 PM

It runs into the No True Scotsman fallacy, and ultimately a poor choice of words. But even still offhand lines get exaggerated, as Scorsese didn't seem to be as vitriolic as "not true cinema" line implies and he makes the effort to explain his thoughts in paragraphs rather than Quote Mining.

My thoughts have always been that the MCU is more a success in terms of branding rather than really pushing the boundaries of writing, directing, acting or cinematography. The concept of the cinematic Shared Universe is built into that, how they've conditioned audiences to wait until The Stinger to advertise their next movie (which reminds me of, pre-video streaming days, Meet Joe Black having a ticket sale boost because it was reported to have the trailer for The Phantom Menace and people paid for the trailer and left for the movie). The movies are generally fun and breezy, some are better than others, but the quick turnover with largely the same production crew just doesn't facilitate really inventive films.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#112037: Nov 4th 2019 at 9:54:05 PM

[up][up]I dont think you can compare superhero films with that, because is a VERY diferent phenomena.

I will said he is right in what can be call the franshinezation of cinema, now everything have to make sequels, need to make more(like terminator) and have to generate stuff for years and years to come, the MCU didnt create this, I feel you can fine is origins in action movie like Stallone more successful films, Rocky and Rambo and horror movies, slasher in particular who have like 8 o 9 movie eachs.

But....I have to said sometimes Marvel feel less like a chain of movie and more like a highly produce television series, in part is the sameness, the years long arc more akin to lost and other tv series that what you can expect from a movie saga and were a times people talk of MCU more as the end result than the sum of is part.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#112038: Nov 4th 2019 at 10:10:14 PM

I always kinda assumed that this later statement from Scorsese was what he originally wanted to express, but people have a tendency to Accentuate the Negative with whatever they don't like, resulting in incredibly unnuanced statements that are either highly debatable or are blatantly false. It is fine for him to be frustrated at the current state of cinema since he has valid points and concerns, but he made himself look like an ass when he started criticising the MCU movies in bad faith.

Don't catch you slippin' now.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#112039: Nov 4th 2019 at 10:42:36 PM

I dont think you can compare superhero films with that, because is a VERY diferent phenomena.
What, with Westerns or gangster films? Why not? They are genres that became incredibly popular for a while and eventually faded in popularity, although they never disappeared. I don't know how long the superhero movie boom will last, but I suspect the same thing will happen there.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#112040: Nov 4th 2019 at 10:45:06 PM

Kinda because there were a genre, the superhero genre is more than Marvel, there is also the facto of MCU being a franshine, we are taking about having the same rol for years playing into movie conected to each other, while branching into tv series, videogames and more(and the MCU itself being a branch of comic books).

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#112041: Nov 4th 2019 at 10:47:47 PM

Kinda because there were a genre, the superhero genre is more than Marvel
I know, but Marvel is the largest provider of superhero films. It's like saying calling a face tissue "Kleenex"; it's a brand, sure, but it's also the most popular brand and pretty synonymous with the genre. Warner Bros makes some superhero films; Marvel Studios is all superhero films.

The rest of the stuff you are referring to has nothing to do with films. That's all extra stuff that provides more stories, but Scorcese is talking exclusively about film here.

Edited by alliterator on Nov 4th 2019 at 10:48:56 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#112042: Nov 4th 2019 at 10:52:01 PM

[up]It is related to one of is point about the ubicousness of superhero blockbusters and how prevalent they are, because is not just the idea of superhero as popular genre, they were already back in 2000, is about superhero as super franchise get talk A LOT.

Is kidna way more than a genre being popular, in part because is diferent times.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#112043: Nov 4th 2019 at 11:02:28 PM

because is not just the idea of superhero as popular genre, they were already back in 2000, is about superhero as super franchise get talk A LOT.
Superheroes were not a popular genre in 2000 — in fact, the first X-Men film just came out in 2000, while Spider-Man came out in 2002. Those films were hits, so we had a period of time in which a bunch of studios tried their hardest to make the next hit...and pretty much failed completely. By 2007, the last film in the Spider-Man trilogy hit and was critically panned, just as the last film in the X-Men trilogy had been panned the year before. Superman Returns had bombed in 2006 and Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer bombed in 2007. Things for superhero films looked bleak.

And then 2008 hit and we got Iron Man and The Dark Knight. And that was the beginning of the superhero genre boom.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#112044: Nov 5th 2019 at 6:18:16 AM

A set for Eternals got evacuated due to the discovery of a bomb!

According to the Daily Mail, the film was shooting a scene on a base on the Canary Island of Fuerteventura. Bomb disposal crews were immediately dispatched to disarm the device, which is believed to be a leftover armament from when the Nazis occupied the base. No one has been reported injured as of this writing.

Thank the lord no one got hurt.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#112045: Nov 5th 2019 at 9:27:34 AM

I think Scorsese is focusing too much on just theatrically released films.

Yeah, the offerings in movie theaters are becoming increasingly built around tightly controlled corporate brands, but theaters are not where people do most of their film watching anymore. They do most of that in their homes, and most of it is officially branded as "television" rather than "film", but that's just a difference in how they're packaged, rather than being a different medium. That's where you go if you want smaller, more unique productions. Theaters are reserved for the guaranteed crowdpleaser stuff.

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#112046: Nov 5th 2019 at 9:29:47 AM

Speaking of the series of the two buddies, I wonder how they will do so that Falcon can use the shield in the same way as Cap.

I guess he's going to develop Charles Atlas Superpower.

He could also combine his flight equipment with the shield.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Nov 5th 2019 at 9:31:26 AM

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#112047: Nov 5th 2019 at 9:39:56 AM

Scorsese is also not seeing past his highly successful blinders and realizing that making a film these days is NOT CHEAP. A failure can damage a studio's rep and bottom line (See Fox's last FF film where they allowed one man to control the vision of a film and it cost the company dearly) they are not about to risk that to indulge in somebody's 'vision'.

I don't think there is a major studio out there today that's willing to fork over millions for 'One Man's Creative Vision' I don't think there are many MINOR studios willing to do that, you only have to look back at the Auteur failures of the past to see why. For every epic award winning classic you have 4-5 epic failures.

"Doing it for the ART" only works if you are *already* highly successful with a good rep for turning in quality product and even THEN if screw up you'll be blackballed and have to claw your way back up to the big leagues again.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#112048: Nov 5th 2019 at 10:30:21 AM

[up]well most "auteur" films these days are pretty cheap to make compared to say, a marvel movie. Usually because they're more "literary" stories that aren't so focused on special effects or expensive CGI.

For examples of some filmmakers Scorsese cited, Paul Thomas Anderson's last film, phantom thread had a budget of 35 million.

Wes Andersons Great Budapest Hotel cost 25 million to make.

Spike lee's blackkklansman cost only 15 million.

There are exceptions, Scorsese's Irishman and most of Christopher Nolan's recent films cost something over 100 million dollars, but that's pretty much because they're huge and reliable moneymakers with proven track records, as you said.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Nov 5th 2019 at 2:38:57 PM

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#112049: Nov 5th 2019 at 10:40:30 AM

[up]Well that’s just it. I get where he’s coming from...but he’s Martin Scorsese. The man has never had anyone tell him to cut his budget or cast someone with a higher Q rating. Those things don’t just magically appear.

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#112050: Nov 5th 2019 at 10:45:08 AM

[up] EXACTLY he's got a TON of advantages that most of the 'little auteur' directors can't even dream of. He can walk into almost any studio and say "I want to make this movie" and nine times out of ten people will be throwing money at him for his film.

Any other director will be fighting tooth and nail to get their vision on the screen, they will be fighting against investors and producers who are looking for a return on the investment, studios looking to make money and protect themselves against possible failure.


Total posts: 186,763
Top