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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#111976: Nov 1st 2019 at 1:56:57 PM

So Peyton Reed joins James Gunn and Jon Watts as directors who will soon helm an entire MCU trilogy.

Unless you want to count the Russo films as a quadrilogy for some reason. But still, they didn't direct all the Captain America and Avenger movies.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#111977: Nov 1st 2019 at 2:22:30 PM

Also, Into the Spider-Verse 2 is coming April 2022. I know that's still over two years away, but thank god. (I don't know why that article keeps calling it "Enter the Spider-Verse," when it's "Into the Spider-Verse.")

Edited by alliterator on Nov 1st 2019 at 2:23:23 AM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#111978: Nov 1st 2019 at 8:00:13 PM

Ms. Marvel is currently casting. Apparently the casting director of Agents of SHIELD is also working on the show.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#111979: Nov 1st 2019 at 8:38:19 PM

Nice. Aside from one or two missteps, AOS was almost perfectly cast. (The same goes for the other Marvel TV shows.)

Edited by alliterator on Nov 1st 2019 at 8:38:30 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#111980: Nov 1st 2019 at 10:29:47 PM

There's been a few inappropriate castings like the Ancient One, or people with a lot of external baggage like Scarjo, but outside of the Scott Buck-helmed series I don't think the MCU has ever had any truly bad actor choices for any of the roles, even the lesser ones.

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#111981: Nov 2nd 2019 at 6:11:30 AM

[up][up] I thought quite a few of the AOS actors were not very good in their first year, but they certainly grew into their roles. I’m not sure how much of that was improvement in acting and how much was improvement in directing, but even between the first snd second seasons there was a marked difference.

Edited by Galadriel on Nov 2nd 2019 at 9:12:38 AM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#111982: Nov 2nd 2019 at 8:11:01 PM

I felt Skye/Daisy definitely improved in most respects as the series went on.

[up][up]Even in the Scott Buck shows I felt a lot of the actors were really trying their best but had shit material to work with. I thought Anson Mount was much better in Star Trek Discovery, for instance.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#111983: Nov 2nd 2019 at 8:21:47 PM

[up][up]Is more the role they have to play, Skye for example was very wheedonian "stick to men" agent int he first season but once we know her backstory she become one of the best chararter of the show.

The only one who go stuck was Ward, more because it was just sort of there than anything wrong with the actor.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#111984: Nov 2nd 2019 at 9:18:33 PM

Ward's actor definitely became better when he was revealed as a bad guy.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#111985: Nov 2nd 2019 at 9:41:32 PM

[up]Kinda, problem is that even after that, Ward as a chararter just sort stand there, becoming less important until he kill Coulson girl and then die in that alien planet, it was kind frustrating.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#111987: Nov 3rd 2019 at 12:41:05 AM

Even in the Scott Buck shows I felt a lot of the actors were really trying their best but had shit material to work with. I thought Anson Mount was much better in Star Trek Discovery, for instance.

I agree for the most part, the egregious example I was thinking of was Finn Jones, who was so obviously misfit from the beginning that even with better material and preparation mostly gives a functional performance (to his credit) rather than an outstanding one.

Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:53:02 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#111988: Nov 3rd 2019 at 1:14:23 AM

Oh yeah, definitely. I know Simu Liu has some experience as a stunt performer, so hopefully Shang-Chi doesn't fall into the same pitfalls of starring a martial arts-themed superhero who clearly doesn't know how to fight very well.

Edited by comicwriter on Nov 3rd 2019 at 1:14:32 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#111989: Nov 3rd 2019 at 2:41:53 AM

imO Brett Dalton was the best actor in the show, alongside Iain maybe.

He played all 4 different roles very distinctively (Fake Good Ward, Bad Ward, Hive, Framework Ward).

Edited by Forenperser on Nov 3rd 2019 at 12:45:31 PM

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#111992: Nov 3rd 2019 at 5:54:00 AM

While the character of Ward started to show signs of Villain Decay in the latter half of the second season and went full-blown "Why are we still trying to make this guy relevant?" in the third, that was never Brett Dalton's fault. It was, rather, the inevitable consequence of contracting someone as a main character for multiple years and then having them turn on the protagonists in the first.

Ward reached his natural conclusion point midway through the second season when Skydaisies shot him. After that, it was just an increasingly desperate snowball effort to come up with reasons for him to still show up in nearly every episode and fulfill his contractual episode quota.

But again, that wasn't Dalton's fault. He did a phenomenal job with Ward, which helped to mask writing that was contrived at best and just downright awful at worst (coughcoughWomenInRefrigerators). And when he finally got to change things up with characters who hadn't worn out their welcome - first Squidward and then Frameward - his talent really shone through.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 3rd 2019 at 6:56:16 AM

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#111993: Nov 3rd 2019 at 6:02:51 AM

I think the only mistake they made with Ward was not making him the Big Bad in Season 3 (or at least the first half) as advertised, but having him play second-fiddle again. Would've loved to see him as the actual head of HYDRA.

But then again, I loved Hive, so it was ok.

And I'm still sad Framework-Ward didn't get an LMD sad Guy was awesome.

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#111994: Nov 3rd 2019 at 6:40:47 AM

Yeah, it's funny because I was one of the most vocal proponents of getting rid of Ward because he'd worn out his usefulness.

But I was also one of the most vocal proponents of keeping Frameward around. Like Ward, he was a treacherous double-agent in the world's legitimate authority. A brave, relentless, dedicated individual who relentlessly undermined and opposed them. And he really, really wanted to bang Skydaisies. All true things about Ward.

But in the Framework, that authority was Hydra, so these things about Ward made him a good guy. And, honestly, a much better guy than a simple "Same guy, different side" switch should have made him, because OG Ward was a murderous self-righteous asshole.

I really wanted to keep Frameward via an LMD. There was a fascinating story premise in him, adrift in the real world, trying to reconnect to the people he knew and loved - especially Grant's brother, introduced in the third season - but having to deal with the baggage of being Grant Ward. The duality of being a digital replica of a human being, yet also being a better human being than the real Grant Ward ever was.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 3rd 2019 at 7:41:49 AM

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#111995: Nov 3rd 2019 at 7:37:23 AM

Given what happened with Coulson that does feel like a perfectly wasted opportunity. I wonder if considered bringing Dalton back for the final season in a similar fashion.

I'd prefer him to Deke honestly. I don't know what the point of keeping him around was.

Edited by Soble on Nov 3rd 2019 at 7:43:57 AM

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#111996: Nov 3rd 2019 at 7:40:02 AM

The whole Coulson thing still annoys me. It was so unnecessary.

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#111997: Nov 3rd 2019 at 7:40:05 AM

[up][up] Oh man, you're right. Framework Ward, a decent human being LMD in the skin of a total shitweasel, throwing down with Sarge, a total shitweasel LMD in the skin of a decent human being would have been fantastic.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 3rd 2019 at 8:40:23 AM

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JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#111998: Nov 3rd 2019 at 1:18:49 PM

Grant Ward is a character that surprised me, basically because I didn't think the series was able to turn one of the main characters into a villain.

Even when was revealed that he was a villain, I thought it would be the classic case of "'Is bad for two chapters and then is good again", but it wasn't the case.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#111999: Nov 3rd 2019 at 1:35:56 PM

I think ward problem is that he is not a chararter that can carry things alone, he is more Ao S crossbone, he should have a evil team with him leading in the front but being subservent to someone else.

Now, I feel pity for ward because I feel he is exactly a good showing of what HYDRA does to is operative, the way Garret untterly destroy is hability to actually trust people in actual way, I find him trying to cling away to ANYONE as long he dosent have to think for himself as it kinda show in the final episode of season 1 and some of season 2.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#112000: Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:05:58 PM

I also think that the writers often kinda tripped over themselves when it came to the messages they tried to tell with Ward.

His brother for example, he was all "Just because you come from a family of abusive monsters, you don't have to become one." .....Well yeah, but you were also the only one not to get tortured by your mother Thomas, and you also weren't the one (more or less forcefully) recruited by an even more abusive HYDRA agent. Like, I get what they were aiming at, but sometimes it wasn't done quite right.

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