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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#111551: Oct 19th 2019 at 4:15:19 PM

The reinvention of M'Baku in Black Panther showed that an offensive stereotype like the Ancient One or Man-Ape can be reworked into a compelling character, if Marvel actually hired people from the relevant culture instead of struggling in the dark by themselves.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#111552: Oct 19th 2019 at 4:17:52 PM

I actually like Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#111553: Oct 19th 2019 at 4:19:51 PM

I feel bad she landed a rather dull role which didn't even have much wizarding.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#111554: Oct 19th 2019 at 4:20:30 PM

Theoretically Tilda Swinton getting into the MCU I'd be down with, but good lord was this a casting misfire. I imagine some people groaned to themselves when she turned up again in Endgame.

At least we have Shang-Chi on the way.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#111555: Oct 19th 2019 at 4:31:24 PM

Wasn't there also supposed to be some concern about how the character being Tibetan would play with the Chinese censors?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#111556: Oct 19th 2019 at 4:43:24 PM

That’s almost certainly the reason the character was race lifted.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#111557: Oct 19th 2019 at 4:46:14 PM

That was an excuse proffered by one of the screenwriters in an interview, but I don't know if it's actually true as Kamar-Taj had already been relocated to Nepal and they could've easily made him Nepali. It wouldn't surprise me if it did though, although that now raises the question as to which one is worse, Disney either kowtowing to racist white audiences/executives or to racist Chinese censors?

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#111558: Oct 19th 2019 at 5:18:57 PM

Doctor Strange's screenwriter C. Robert Cargill suggested in an interview that pressure from China would prevent them from portraying the Ancient One as Tibetan, but later tweeted that this was just speculation and neither he nor Marvel had received any orders from the PRC.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 19th 2019 at 5:28:56 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#111559: Oct 19th 2019 at 5:25:56 PM

> but later tweeted that this was just speculation and neither he nor Marvel had received any orders from the PRC.

I feel like if they make any threats it's done privately and it's not something they'd openly admit

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Dirtyblue929 Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#111560: Oct 19th 2019 at 6:00:43 PM

Yeah given recent events I don't doubt for a second that PRC censors played a role in getting the Ancient One's tibetan hertiage removed.

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Oct 19th 2019 at 6:02:59 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#111561: Oct 19th 2019 at 7:20:38 PM

there are no alternate timelines where Loki made off with the Tesseract
Ah, but we know that Loki from that timeline will show up, so unless he someone escaped that timeline before it was clipped, that timeline still exists.

Tina Minoru had a cameo here?! How did I miss it?!
Not really, only kinda. When all the sorcerors are getting ready, she's the woman with the black hair who gets the staff. But nobody mentions her name and she never talks, so she might as well be someone else.

MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#111562: Oct 19th 2019 at 8:18:54 PM

Edit: Wait, I completely misread what you wrote. Ignore this post, my bad.

Edited by MrSeyker on Oct 19th 2019 at 8:21:36 AM

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#111563: Oct 19th 2019 at 8:39:32 PM

I think we're actually up to four Watsons then, with Jude Law being in Captain Marvel and John C. Reilly in the first Guardians movie.

...I am truly sorry that I just reminded everyone that Holmes and Watson exists.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#111564: Oct 19th 2019 at 9:21:49 PM

Surprised Lucy Liu hasn't shown up in the MCU yet.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#111565: Oct 19th 2019 at 9:55:21 PM

[up]She did direct the season 2 premiere of Luke Cage.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#111566: Oct 19th 2019 at 10:24:59 PM

It'll be real interesting to see how Shang-Chi shakes out given Disney's history of trying to cater to China and all the current political drama going on.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#111568: Oct 20th 2019 at 7:22:25 AM

I know it got brought up as a joke this time, but people were actually serious about it the last time, so: I generally don't like the use of "they're just jealous" because it's usually an attempt to discredit something someone is saying without actually addressing what they're trying to say. Which you don't really need to do with Scorcese because there's plenty wrong with what he said on its own merits.

Though I will say Coppola's comments carry rather less weight given he's been irrelevant for quite some time now.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Oct 20th 2019 at 10:32:52 AM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#111569: Oct 20th 2019 at 7:36:52 AM

[up] It didn't occur to me that "just jealous" was used in a serious manner.

Though I will say Coppola's comments carry rather less weight given he's been irrelevant for quite some time now.

He did a re-re-cut of Apocalypse Now this year, calling it a "Final Cut", but I don't think I've seen much in the way of hype for it.

(Now I'm wondering if he said what he said for the sake of attention.) tongue

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#111570: Oct 20th 2019 at 7:41:41 AM

[up] hbomberguy did a great video about Director's Cuts and took a look at Apocalypse Now in particular, declaring the Director's Cuts to be terrible and not even wanting to see the Final Cut.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 20th 2019 at 7:41:58 AM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#111571: Oct 20th 2019 at 7:47:24 AM

[up][up][up]You're right, but it's still very easy to read it that way.

This song needs more love.
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#111572: Oct 20th 2019 at 8:21:08 AM

People keep weighing in on this because the press keeps asking people about it in relation to Scorsese's initial comment; there are plenty of "serious" directors who don't like Marvel or superhero movies in general, and we've been hearing about that for years.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#111573: Oct 20th 2019 at 8:24:34 AM

[up] People can not like a movie, but they still call them movies. Most of the writers and directors I've heard who dislike Marvel movies, you know, acknowledge that they are movies, they just don't like them/don't think they are good.

Scorcese and Coppolla are saying "No, no, they aren't movies at all. Because...I said so!"

I do think Coppolla's nephew might have some words for him: Nicolas Cage.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 20th 2019 at 8:26:59 AM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#111574: Oct 20th 2019 at 8:26:43 AM

Maybe he’s part of the reason why Coppola dislikes comic book movies.

The legend has returned.
Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor Since: Aug, 2014
The Mad Doctor
#111575: Oct 20th 2019 at 8:32:42 AM

I call this whole "controversy" on whether comic book movies are cinema to be dumb. It's riddled with No True Scotsman so much that it might as well be a guy trying to get past the Berlin Wall. Dislike a movie, but it's still a movie. It also reinforces the idea that True Art Is Angsty or True Art Is Incomprehensible.


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