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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#110926: Oct 6th 2019 at 11:55:49 AM

Civil War is a goodm entertaining movie, not something I'm head over heels for but still plenty enjoyable and, dare I say, a better Avengers movie than the actual Avengers movie we got the previous year.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#110927: Oct 6th 2019 at 11:56:03 AM

They continually announce boxsets of all of the movies that have been produced. The boxset after The Avengers was probably the Phase I boxset (there was also a deluxe boxset shaped like Fury's metal briefcase that held the Tesseract).

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#110928: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:00:17 PM

No, I distinctly remember a big announcement of a complete MCU box set containing Phases 1-3, and most of the movies in Phases 2 and 3 were just question marks because those movies hadn't even been announced yet. I remember a bunch of people making fun of the box set because of how ambitious it was to announce a box set containing movies in Phase 3 when they had barely started on Phase 2.

Andrei_Bondoc Since: Jan, 2019
#110929: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:00:53 PM

[up][up][up][up]Sally Field was born in 1946. Marisa Tomei was born in 1964. Who's older?

By the way, forgot to add an observation:

  1. So begins a partnership between Sony Pictures and Marvel Studios...

[up][up][up]Why is Avengers: Endgame dissapoiting to you?

"Scooby Dooby Doo!"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#110930: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:00:59 PM

Stan Lee cameo: Fed Ex guy who misnames Tony Stark as "Tony Stank".

It's kinda funny that Stan Lee disses Tony in this film. While other characters were created because Stan Lee had a cool idea and wanted to run with it, Stark originated as a self-imposed challenge. Stan wanted to try and create a "quintessential capitalist" superhero who would go against the mold of the rest of his works.

"I think I gave myself a dare. It was the height of the Cold War. The readers, the young readers, if there was one thing they hated, it was war, it was the military ... So I got a hero who represented that to the hundredth degree. He was a weapons manufacturer, he was providing weapons for the Army, he was rich, he was an industrialist ... I thought it would be fun to take the kind of character that nobody would like, none of our readers would like, and shove him down their throats and make them like him ... And he became very popular."

Tony was supposed to be an obnoxious Creator's Pet whose very un-superherolike qualities drove readers nuts.

So having Stan pop up at the end of Civil War to verbally riff on Tony after Cap's finished beating the shit out of him is very appropriate.

The Stinger: Not another two-pack...

Wait 'til you get to Guardians 2....

Civil War is a goodm entertaining movie, not something I'm head over heels for but still plenty enjoyable and, dare I say, a better Avengers movie than the actual Avengers movie we got the previous year.

Agreed. Full stop.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 6th 2019 at 1:02:44 PM

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Andrei_Bondoc Since: Jan, 2019
#110931: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:02:41 PM

[up]Forgot to tell you all about The Stinger part of my review: it's supposed to be jokey. And I forgot to add Joking Mode...

"Scooby Dooby Doo!"
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#110932: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:03:50 PM

[up][up][up]I think they mean Age of Ultron, which was probably the worst Avengers movie by a wide margin (not that that's saying much, though).

Edited by Protagonist506 on Oct 6th 2019 at 12:03:58 PM

Leviticus 19:34
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#110934: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:05:52 PM

They do. They said the previous year, not this previous year. That'd be a really weird phrasing if they meant Endgame.

Though I, personally, would be willing to apply it to Endgame too.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#110935: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:06:02 PM

@Andrei Huh, I thought I read somewhere that Sally Field was younger. Guess it was wrong. Still, Marisa Tomei being 50 is much older than people seem to think she is.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 6th 2019 at 12:06:45 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#110936: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:07:07 PM

Marisa Tomei has aged really f*cking well.

That happens. There's a woman I work with who looks like she's in her mid-twenties and just celebrated her 50th birthday. I've been ribbing her about secretly being a vampire.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Andrei_Bondoc Since: Jan, 2019
#110937: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:08:14 PM

You all noticed about my impressions of every MCU film an Early-Installment Weirdness, right?

"Scooby Dooby Doo!"
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#110938: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:10:20 PM

[up][up]Same goes for my mom, actually. She's in her early 50s but looks mid-30s.

[up]Huh?

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 6th 2019 at 12:10:59 PM

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#110939: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:13:01 PM

"Aunt May is younger than ever... hmmm... looks more like a mom to me..."

She is his aunt, not his grandmother.

Andrei_Bondoc Since: Jan, 2019
#110940: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:17:01 PM

[up]I know that.

[up][up]I mean my reviews weren't that detailed before with observations, Stan Lee cameos, stingers and all that.

Edited by Andrei_Bondoc on Oct 6th 2019 at 10:18:26 PM

"Scooby Dooby Doo!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#110941: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:30:19 PM

While I always found Winter Soldier to be pretty overrated, Civil War is a masterpiece.

Loved it from beginning to end.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#110942: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:32:17 PM

Civil War is an already great film, but gets extra-special bonus points from me for making a great film out of one of the most reviled event comics in Marvel history.

A lot of people were dreading this film when it was announced, because the 616's Civil War event was a mess. Just. Just so many problems. So many.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 6th 2019 at 1:33:18 PM

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#110943: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:33:32 PM

Unfortunately, from what I've heard about it, it doesn't sound like Civil War II is salvageable in the same way.

Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#110944: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:34:46 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] Of course, before she and Ben looked more like Peter's great uncles, so...

Edited by Blueace on Oct 6th 2019 at 4:35:34 PM

Wake me up at your own risk.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#110945: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:36:37 PM

Yeah, its a classical case of Better Than Canon.

Speaking of which, despite all the problems the movie might have had, I'm SO glad that Age of Ultron was a In Name Only adaptation.

Comics AoU is just....I can't even find the right words for it. For me, it is BY FAR the worst event Marvel ever published. And that is a fucking feat.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 6th 2019 at 9:38:04 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#110946: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:46:25 PM

[up]Tell me!

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#110948: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:49:25 PM

Honestly given how much of a mess the 616 comics event was, and how many things the film had to juggle, it's very admirable that the script and pacing of the film are as good as they are.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#110949: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:53:37 PM

The main problem with Civil War II is that, for an ongoing universe, its central premise is stupid. Civil War II's central premise is, "Minority Report: should we?"

The comic approaches its divide with the exact same issue that the original Civil War comic did: it assumes you'll automatically agree with the guys who are supposed to be right, and thus goes out of the way to write the political and philosophical arguments against them. Team Right is given nothing but strawman arguments, while both sides constantly kick puppies to make the argument deep.

The story revolves around a seer who can psychically predict future crimes, with questions revolving around the morality of using that as a method of crime-prevention. The writers assume you will immediately kneejerk against it, so they try to muddy the discourse by putting all the emphasis on how perfect and flawless and accurate the system is.

Problem is: the ability to psychically predict crimes with 100% accuracy and no drawbacks? That's f*cking awesome! There is literally no reason not to use that. Any leader would trade their right kidney for such a system. Problem is, these are also superhero comic writers telling the story, so they skip over "There's gonna be a murder, let's find out why and make it not happen," in favor of "There's gonna be a murder, let's lock up everyone involved in Nazi Internment Camps."

I don't know if that makes it unfilmable, though. Civil War I had the same problems regarding its handling of the designated Team Right and Team Wrong. Carol's "supposed" to be the bad guy but utterly trashes her competition in the moral debate in exactly the same way that Captain America's "supposed" to be the bad guy but utterly trashes his competition in the moral debate.

Civil War I salvaged that by just making Cap officially the good guy and going, "Boom, fixed." While also removing some of the Strawman Nazism that the original provided Iron Man to try and make the conflict "complex". And that worked out pretty great.

Civil War II would have a harder burden 'cause, like, Carol needs to lose. Her team is in favor of using the Minority Report system. If she wins and the world-changing super-system becomes the status quo, that makes writing future MCU films so much harder. For the sake of the film not existing in a vacuum, Team Carol still has to be the bad guys. You can't just make her the good guy and call it good.

But there's a framework for that. Minority Report exists as a film. All they need to do to make Carol lose the moral argument is remove the numerous and constant reinforcements throughout the story that the Minority Report system really is 100% accurate and flawless in all situations forever.

Introduce a measure of doubt into whether the crimes it's predicting were guaranteed to happen, merely could happen, or were potentially even a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy, and Carol's unintended rightness in the conflict becomes less ironclad.

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#110950: Oct 6th 2019 at 12:57:51 PM

Tony was supposed to be an obnoxious Creator's Pet whose very un-superherolike qualities drove readers nuts.

I think you're misinterpreting Stan Lee there.

The objective wasn't to create an obnoxious character the readers would hate, it was to create a character who embodied a lot of things the readers hated, but was heroic enough that the readers would like him despite the clashing ideology.

Challenging himself to write a heroic character contradicting his own ideologies and preferences, and challenging readers to empathize with the same. Sort of a comic book "reach across the aisle" kind of thing.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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