Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread
. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
- Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.
If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM
The story is a central element of a movie. John Wick and the Marvel movies are, for the most part, fairly shallow as stories go, and the Marvel ones are repetetive in terms of a lot of character types and story beats. The characters and their arcs are not especially nuanced or complex. And story and character consistency are often sacrificied for the sake of setting up subsequent movies.
Other artistic and technical aspects (e.g. visuals) may be high-quality, but that’s doesn’t seem to ge what Scorcese is talking about.
As an alternative to the Beethoven analogy: If a mediocre book is hand-written with beautiful calligraphy, that might make it a type of visual art but it doesn’t make it any better as literature.
Edited by Galadriel on Oct 4th 2019 at 1:15:31 PM
Scorcese himself is an excellent director (I've enjoyed every film of his I've seen quite a bit, or at least found them interesting), but obviously you don't need to put any stock in his opinion. This isn't the first time a director like him has said he doesn't care for the MCU or most superhero movies.
Personally what bothers me isnt that he doesnt care for them, because at one point I felt similarly, it's that I really dislike it when people try to use words that should be descriptive as compliments.
Marvel films ARE cinema, whether they are good cinema or not is opinion, but don't create a nebulous idea of "true art" to say that anything that doesn't fit it isn't "real" art. It's not only pretentious, it's just not very useful.
Edited by Draghinazzo on Oct 4th 2019 at 1:56:24 PM
Yeah, it's perfectly fine to not like or be interested in Marvel movies, or to point out their flaws or limitations, but denying that they're cinema at all gives an exclusionary vibe. Superhero films can explore topics, themes and moods just as drama films like Scorsese's own do, just different ones, and in a very flashy and visually distinct manner.
Any time a director talks down to Marvel movies for whatever reason, it just sounds like they're salty that the MCU is more popular than their movies.
Edited by LordVatek on Oct 4th 2019 at 2:42:30 PM
This song needs more love.![]()
Fair. I just think that's what it sounds like.
Same thing with James Cameron a few years back.
This song needs more love.Scorsese's a good director but I also give zero fucks about his opinions. They're just opinions.
Unless you're specifically preying on someone's preferences, there's really no reason to care about a person's opinion.
Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Oct 4th 2019 at 2:56:43 PM
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!In case anyone had any doubts, Disney boss Bob Iger confirmed that yes, Tom Holland is a flipping superhero.
Also, we got details on The Infinity Saga boxset we all knew was coming.
Includes:
- All 23 MCU movies released thus far, (including the Spider-Man movies set in the MCU) in 4K UHD and Blu-Ray.
- A bonus disc featuring deleted and extended scenes.
- A Matt Ferguson lithograph. (Not sure what that is.)
- A letter from Kevin Feige.
Coming from Best Buy on November 15th and it can be yours for the generous price of $549.99 or if you prefer, a kidney, an arm, a leg, an appendix, 2 cups of your own blood, and your firstborn child.
Oh, and it's a limited release.
Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Oct 4th 2019 at 3:34:17 PM
Btw, Ms. Marvel was shown off as the main character of Square Enix's upcoming Avengers game.
Notably, it shows off her powers in a more realistic setting so I was thinking that it might provide insight into how she might look in her Disney+ series.
This song needs more love.

Depends on how we define shallow.
For example, John Wick is shallow in certain ways (the first movie is practically an excuse plot), but it is a work of art in terms of things like fight scene choreography. To say that John Wick is shallow due to its excuse plot is like saying that Beethoven's works are shallow because they have no lyrics.
Same thing goes for the Marvel Movies. They have depth in various areas, just not the ones you're looking for.
On a sidenote, theme park rides are art, too.
Edited by Protagonist506 on Oct 4th 2019 at 10:04:02 AM
Leviticus 19:34