TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Marvel Cinematic Universe

Go To

Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#110826: Oct 4th 2019 at 10:02:16 AM

Depends on how we define shallow.

For example, John Wick is shallow in certain ways (the first movie is practically an excuse plot), but it is a work of art in terms of things like fight scene choreography. To say that John Wick is shallow due to its excuse plot is like saying that Beethoven's works are shallow because they have no lyrics.

Same thing goes for the Marvel Movies. They have depth in various areas, just not the ones you're looking for.

On a sidenote, theme park rides are art, too.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Oct 4th 2019 at 10:04:02 AM

Leviticus 19:34
Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#110827: Oct 4th 2019 at 10:11:41 AM

The story is a central element of a movie. John Wick and the Marvel movies are, for the most part, fairly shallow as stories go, and the Marvel ones are repetetive in terms of a lot of character types and story beats. The characters and their arcs are not especially nuanced or complex. And story and character consistency are often sacrificied for the sake of setting up subsequent movies.

Other artistic and technical aspects (e.g. visuals) may be high-quality, but that’s doesn’t seem to ge what Scorcese is talking about.

As an alternative to the Beethoven analogy: If a mediocre book is hand-written with beautiful calligraphy, that might make it a type of visual art but it doesn’t make it any better as literature.

Edited by Galadriel on Oct 4th 2019 at 1:15:31 PM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#110828: Oct 4th 2019 at 10:24:09 AM

Yeah. I mean, there is a reason why "The Marvel Formula" is a term these days.

They are action movies, first and foremost.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 4th 2019 at 7:51:09 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#110829: Oct 4th 2019 at 10:36:43 AM

But Scorsese didn't call them "not art," he called them "not cinema." Which blatantly incorrect.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#110830: Oct 4th 2019 at 10:44:43 AM

[up]He essentially means the same thing.

As long as he has the same opinion about 80’s action movies, your Terminators, Rambos, etc...Fine. Otherwise, this is hypocritical.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#110831: Oct 4th 2019 at 10:47:24 AM

Scorcese himself is an excellent director (I've enjoyed every film of his I've seen quite a bit, or at least found them interesting), but obviously you don't need to put any stock in his opinion. This isn't the first time a director like him has said he doesn't care for the MCU or most superhero movies.

Personally what bothers me isnt that he doesnt care for them, because at one point I felt similarly, it's that I really dislike it when people try to use words that should be descriptive as compliments.

Marvel films ARE cinema, whether they are good cinema or not is opinion, but don't create a nebulous idea of "true art" to say that anything that doesn't fit it isn't "real" art. It's not only pretentious, it's just not very useful.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Oct 4th 2019 at 1:56:24 PM

Alycus Since: Apr, 2018
#110832: Oct 4th 2019 at 11:40:02 AM

Yeah, it's perfectly fine to not like or be interested in Marvel movies, or to point out their flaws or limitations, but denying that they're cinema at all gives an exclusionary vibe. Superhero films can explore topics, themes and moods just as drama films like Scorsese's own do, just different ones, and in a very flashy and visually distinct manner.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#110833: Oct 4th 2019 at 11:42:15 AM

Any time a director talks down to Marvel movies for whatever reason, it just sounds like they're salty that the MCU is more popular than their movies.

Edited by LordVatek on Oct 4th 2019 at 2:42:30 PM

This song needs more love.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#110834: Oct 4th 2019 at 11:48:03 AM

[up]Scorsese is one of the greatest, most celebrated directors of all time. I cannot buy the notion he’s jealous.

He’s definitely an elitist.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#110835: Oct 4th 2019 at 11:52:52 AM

So is Ridley Scott, who I think said basically the same thing a while back.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#110836: Oct 4th 2019 at 11:55:30 AM

[up][up]Fair. I just think that's what it sounds like.

Same thing with James Cameron a few years back.

This song needs more love.
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#110837: Oct 4th 2019 at 11:55:54 AM

Scorsese's a good director but I also give zero fucks about his opinions. They're just opinions.

Unless you're specifically preying on someone's preferences, there's really no reason to care about a person's opinion.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Oct 4th 2019 at 2:56:43 PM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#110838: Oct 4th 2019 at 11:57:33 AM

Also, Roland Emmerich said something like that too, which is just laughable considering his own body of work.

AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#110839: Oct 4th 2019 at 12:14:51 PM

Accomplished directors gonna complain I guess. It's really just whatever to me especially since it's all just opinions and doesn't affect my personal enjoyment of these movies.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#110840: Oct 4th 2019 at 12:33:03 PM

In case anyone had any doubts, Disney boss Bob Iger confirmed that yes, Tom Holland is a flipping superhero.

Also, we got details on The Infinity Saga boxset we all knew was coming.

Includes:

  • All 23 MCU movies released thus far, (including the Spider-Man movies set in the MCU) in 4K UHD and Blu-Ray.
  • A bonus disc featuring deleted and extended scenes.
  • A Matt Ferguson lithograph. (Not sure what that is.)
  • A letter from Kevin Feige.

Coming from Best Buy on November 15th and it can be yours for the generous price of $549.99 or if you prefer, a kidney, an arm, a leg, an appendix, 2 cups of your own blood, and your firstborn child.

Oh, and it's a limited release.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Oct 4th 2019 at 3:34:17 PM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#110841: Oct 4th 2019 at 12:35:03 PM

[up]Does it count if I steal another person's child?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#110842: Oct 4th 2019 at 12:36:50 PM

[up] You'll definitely go to jail for it, but if you're that desperate...

EDIT: Actually, don't steal kids. It ain't cool. See if you can haggle with $200 and an appendix. You don't really need appendixes anyway.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Oct 4th 2019 at 3:38:10 PM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#110843: Oct 4th 2019 at 12:37:39 PM

[up][up][up]That's approximately 24 dollars per movie, which seems a bit high.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 4th 2019 at 12:37:55 PM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#110844: Oct 4th 2019 at 12:40:15 PM

[up][up]But what if it was a legal transaction? What if they couldn't guess my name and they agreed to give a kid over in exchange?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#110845: Oct 4th 2019 at 12:41:09 PM

Cameron in particular is a complete prat, and has repeatedly risked his actors' personal safety to get the reactions he wanted out of them. Kate Winslet for instance got hypothermia because cameron forced her to shoot scenes for Titanic in actual freezing water.

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#110846: Oct 4th 2019 at 12:43:36 PM

[up][up] Like in Rumplestiltskin? Ehhhhhh, it'll still be a dick move, but if you're that clever...

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Oct 4th 2019 at 3:44:35 PM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#110847: Oct 4th 2019 at 12:46:06 PM

[up]Hey, they made the choice to give over a child over a stupid bet. They're the dicks, not me.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#110848: Oct 4th 2019 at 12:47:53 PM

...That’s PS 5 level.

Then again, it’s about two dozen films, minus one.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110849: Oct 4th 2019 at 12:50:49 PM

Difference between Scorsese & Cameron.

Cameron craps a lot while Scorsese seems to have the Midas touch.

Seriously everything Scorsese seems to make becomes critically acclaimed. I’ve heard his newest film The Irishman called a late Magnum Opus off the guy.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#110850: Oct 4th 2019 at 1:28:07 PM

Btw, Ms. Marvel was shown off as the main character of Square Enix's upcoming Avengers game.

Notably, it shows off her powers in a more realistic setting so I was thinking that it might provide insight into how she might look in her Disney+ series.

This song needs more love.

Total posts: 186,763
Top