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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#110576: Sep 30th 2019 at 10:12:49 AM

If they are going to make Shang a superhuman, at least give a valid reason beyond that "he train a lot".

It would be strange if a human just training becomes more physically stronger than a Super Soldier, Spiderman or even Iron Man.

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Sep 30th 2019 at 10:14:27 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#110577: Sep 30th 2019 at 10:16:11 AM

He doesn't need to be physically stronger to win fights. Captain America trashed Spider-Man during the airport fight in Civil War despite the fact that Spider-Man can deadlift a concrete building.

Not everything's about power levels.

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JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#110578: Sep 30th 2019 at 10:19:34 AM

But the difference between an Iron Man villain and a Peak Human is much greater than that between Spiderman and a super soldier.

Also Spiderman did not know how to fight, a weakness that the Mandarin does not possess.

—-

Skill is important in a fight, but a character giving fight other character, who is thousands of times stronger, just because he is more skilled is bad writing. (Example: Karate kid vs. Superman, Captain America vs Thanos and Roshi vs Jiren)

—-

Edited by JoLuRo075 on Sep 30th 2019 at 10:35:03 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#110579: Sep 30th 2019 at 10:23:30 AM

Maybe Shang-Chi might take care of the Mandarin's rings, and the final fight will be a straight-up martial arts battle?

It'd be a bit different from other climatic fights in the MCU by keeping it relatively grounded.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#110580: Sep 30th 2019 at 10:29:07 AM

Captain America and Bucky Barnes, two characters that have absolutely no business throwing down in the Iron Man/Thor/Hulk weight class, were able to take down Iron Man through clever application of teamwork, skill, and the convenient involvement of close confines limiting his mobility.

An underdog fighter winning a battle against a superior foe isn't bad writing. It's just writing. It's how the protagonist/antagonist dynamic almost always works in every piece of fictional writing ever made. A story where the hero is just the most powerful dude around and the villain couldn't hope to match him is a story with no tension. The job of a writer is to find a way for the protagonist to win against what seems to be insurmountable odds.

This is not a Versus Debate.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 30th 2019 at 11:31:15 AM

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fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#110581: Sep 30th 2019 at 11:06:14 AM

[up][up][up]You've heard of this, correct?

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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#110582: Sep 30th 2019 at 11:10:08 AM

Mandarin doesn't actually have superpowers without the rings, barring the same chi manipulation powers that a character like Shang-Chi has. So if the actual Makluan rings aren't in the movie, it should be an even fight.

Edited by M84 on Oct 1st 2019 at 2:11:33 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#110584: Sep 30th 2019 at 11:15:13 AM

In all honesty, Cap has fought dozens of people throughout the movies he had absolutely no business fighting. Most blatant example off course was during Infinity War and Endgame, one punch from Thanos should have turned him into red paste.

It's Rule of Cool and Popularity Power at play, just like it is in the comics constantly.

Edited by Forenperser on Sep 30th 2019 at 8:17:41 PM

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AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#110585: Sep 30th 2019 at 11:17:23 AM

[up][up]I thought that was gonna be that gif of that one character kissing this hand with the rings on it then opening his mouth full of the gems.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#110586: Sep 30th 2019 at 11:24:57 AM

I mean Bugs would totally try that.

Warning: do not swallow the Power Stone. Space Stone is okay depending on the mammal.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Sep 30th 2019 at 11:26:19 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#110588: Sep 30th 2019 at 11:48:44 AM

Chi, man.

Good point. I mean.

We have established the existence of people who taught themselves to make portals and laser whips just by working really hard to do it.

So that's not actually unreasonable.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 30th 2019 at 12:49:10 PM

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110589: Sep 30th 2019 at 11:49:10 AM

What is a hero if not overcoming overwhelming odds & punching above their weight class?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#110590: Sep 30th 2019 at 12:05:36 PM

[up] There is a difference between actively working and becoming stronger and "He just did it because its cool!" though.

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AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#110591: Sep 30th 2019 at 12:07:50 PM

Can't beat using The Power of Rock, friendship and/or believing in yourself to beat your evil old child-murdering dad or your murderous goth Knife Nut sister who was the product of your shitty old dad.

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Sep 30th 2019 at 12:08:00 PM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110592: Sep 30th 2019 at 12:16:55 PM

[up][up] Its not really that much of a distinction.

[up] Rock always wins.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 30th 2019 at 12:19:07 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#110593: Sep 30th 2019 at 12:32:23 PM

[up] Why yes, it is. If a character is explicitly shown training and/or getting an upgrade and then being consistently stronger, there is an in-universe reason for it.

If a character gets smacked around by a villains minion in one scene, but takes on the big man himself in the next scene without any explanation, just because "It's cool." it's simply for plot convenience.

The distinction is good and bad writing, basically.

Edited by Forenperser on Sep 30th 2019 at 9:32:41 PM

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110594: Sep 30th 2019 at 12:36:21 PM

I don't recall that ever happening with Cap though.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#110595: Sep 30th 2019 at 12:41:03 PM

One scene: Struggling against Corvus Glaive or a single Outrider.

Other scene: Throwing it down with Thanos.

Just on top off my head.

Edited by Forenperser on Sep 30th 2019 at 9:43:13 PM

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110596: Sep 30th 2019 at 12:43:44 PM

He got his ass kicked by Thanos in that 1st encounter.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 30th 2019 at 12:45:32 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#110597: Sep 30th 2019 at 12:47:36 PM

So Guardians 3 won't start filming until James Gunn is completely finished filming and editing Suicide Squad, which means we won't be seeing it until sometime in 2022:

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29299023/guardians-of-the-galaxy-3-james-gunn-bad-news-production/

Isn't this common knowledge? Why the negative clickbait headline?

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#110598: Sep 30th 2019 at 12:47:46 PM

He still made him struggle closing his hand.

And like I said, when Thanos can wreck up the Hulk and Thor in what, 4-5 punches, Cap logically shouldn't even survive a single one.

But lets move on.

Edited by Forenperser on Sep 30th 2019 at 9:49:51 PM

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fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#110599: Sep 30th 2019 at 12:49:06 PM

[up][up]Wait, Suicide Squad? What? That movie already came out. It wasn't very good but it did come out, what is this?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
TrashJack Confirmed Doomer from beyond the Despair Event Horizon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Confirmed Doomer
#110600: Sep 30th 2019 at 12:50:37 PM

[up] The new Suicide Squad movie. Gunn got the directing job for that before Marvel re-hired him.

"Cynic, n. — A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be." - The Devil's Dictionary

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