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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#110501: Sep 28th 2019 at 1:40:33 PM

So, I've heard it right that the webhead is staying in the MCU and appear in Sony's Universe of Marvel Characters?

Just for one more film, but enough to send him off on a better note than it would otherwise.

Yeah, for at least one Spider-Movie that wraps up Peter's high school phase once and for all a la Iron Man 3 and one MCU movie for I don't know what.

However, I recall reading that this mini-deal was made at the last minute so as to suddenly not lose Jon Watts, so it's entirely possible that after these upcoming movies are done and over with, Marvel/Disney and Sony will make up a new deal that solidifies the Web-Crawler's cinematic fate. (Assuming neither of them have a temper tantrum and restart the #SaveSpiderMan crisis all over again.)

But 2021 is still a ways from now, so we'll cross that bridge when we get there. (Still want Spidey to stick around in the MCU so we see him in college, but I don't want to tempt fate.)

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Sep 28th 2019 at 4:44:01 AM

Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#110502: Sep 28th 2019 at 4:42:26 PM

That is four films in 2021 something is moving

Just Makima.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110503: Sep 28th 2019 at 6:04:41 PM

Huh found myself re-watching Iron Man for the first time in ever.

"Don't waste it Don't waste your life Stark"

Well he sure lived up Yinsen's last words.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#110504: Sep 28th 2019 at 6:10:57 PM

I remember hearing that there was a cut scene in Endgame where Tony met a grown-up version of his daughter in the Soul Stone after his sacrifice.

Personally, I would've had that scene feature Tony meeting Yinsen instead. It feels more emotionally satisfying to have him reunite in death with the man who put him on the path to becoming a hero.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110505: Sep 28th 2019 at 6:22:37 PM

Also yeah Stane is a great villain.

Like he has that affable charm & chemistry that a lot similar villains of his ilk lack.

Goddamn Jeff Bridges. [tup]

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#110506: Sep 28th 2019 at 6:31:32 PM

[up] Yeah, when I rewatched the first Iron Man fairly recently, I was legitimately surprised by how good of a villain Stane was.

At least up until he put on the Iron Monger suit, then he just kind of went bonkers.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#110507: Sep 28th 2019 at 6:41:34 PM

I guess Stane got lost because he was the first, so he kind of set the standard for the typical MCU villain. Plus Loki kind of took the role as the best MCU villain until Phase Three came around.

It probably didn't help that Iron Man 1 came out a few months before The Dark Knight, so there was only one supervillain people were talking about that year.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Sep 28th 2019 at 9:43:21 AM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#110508: Sep 28th 2019 at 6:50:46 PM

If you like Stane in Iron Man, I think you'd also like him in Iron Man: Armored Adventures, where he's the Big Bad.

The legend has returned.
JoLuRo075 Since: Jan, 2019
#110509: Sep 28th 2019 at 6:56:24 PM

In the case of spiderman, I hope that if by a miracle they manage to make a second trilogy, Spiderman must be a graduate adult.

Someone theorized that the reason there was a 5-year leap is for that Spiderman last as a teenager as long as possible, which I hope is not true.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#110510: Sep 28th 2019 at 7:17:20 PM

I haven't heard anyone call Stane outright bad, though I might argue he's overshadowed by some other villains.

I would say there's a bit of a case of "Seinfeld" Is Unfunny and/or Franchise Original Sin with him, though. He's a "Big, Grey Villain" and also a mirror of the hero's powers, both of which are cliches that people criticize with superhero movies.

To be fair, having your villain use the same powers as your hero is actually pretty elegant, especially for an origin story. Basically, it lets you combine their origin stories rather than have two separate ones, and it also makes them intrinsically linked.

Also, the core theme of a lot of superhero stories is the idea of someone receiving a gift and then choosing to use it to help others. This is actually a type of power fantasy, strangely. Basically, if you've ever saw something terrible on the news and felt helpless because you couldn't stop it, the idea that you could help them is the wish fulfillment core to superhero stories.

So, what makes the perfect counter to this story is a person who was given the same gift, but who chooses to use it to hurt others. This goes to the whole "with great power" thing. The supervillain is power without responsibility.

Leviticus 19:34
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#110511: Sep 28th 2019 at 7:31:28 PM

Stane is simultaneously one of the most textbook and least ambitious villains in the MCU, and one of the strongest written and ultimately most effective villains in the MCU.

I'd go as far to say he's a big contender for the franchise's best villain.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 28th 2019 at 7:31:44 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110512: Sep 28th 2019 at 7:33:31 PM

Heh I feel bad for Terrance Howard.

Next time did come, just not for him.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 28th 2019 at 7:39:33 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Cross (Don’t ask)
#110514: Sep 28th 2019 at 7:36:21 PM

Terrence Howard.[nja]

Edited by Cross on Sep 28th 2019 at 10:36:47 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110515: Sep 28th 2019 at 7:38:40 PM

Ah my mistake.

Thought it was him for some reason.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#110516: Sep 28th 2019 at 7:42:47 PM

Heh I feel bad for Terrance Howard.
Don't feel bad for him; he's busy right now retiring from acting so he can build a galaxy without gravity.

Edited by alliterator on Sep 28th 2019 at 7:43:14 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#110517: Sep 28th 2019 at 7:47:16 PM

Obadiah Stane is enlightening because he demonstrates that a big part of the reason why Iron Man 2 and 3 are so inferior to the first film is because their villains just don't work on a basic level.

He's a very basic villain but he's carried very thoroughly by Jeff Bridges' menacing performance and he actually represents something important, both to the narrative themes of the movie and to Tony and the other characters. The sequels failed to either properly integrate the villains into the themes of the film, or were just totally uninteresting.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110518: Sep 28th 2019 at 7:51:07 PM

[up][up] Huh good for him.

Heh to think the suit once had an icing problem when reaching too great heights. Ah how things can improve. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#110519: Sep 28th 2019 at 7:51:49 PM

All this is why I think Obadiah Stane is one of the best villains the MCU has to offer.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#110520: Sep 28th 2019 at 7:56:20 PM

Stane is obviously quite basic by today's standards, but hey, he was the first in the franchise. I can cut him some slack.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#110521: Sep 28th 2019 at 8:06:19 PM

Being basic isn't necessarily something that needs slack cut to it in the first place, if the character is written and acted strongly enough regardless and the role works for the story it's trying to tell.

MCU is full of situations where more ambitious villains fail to do roles that more basic approach may or may not have been better suited for (Ultron), and vice versa - where basic villains fail to do roles that a more ambitious approach may or may not have been better for (Killian). Or, somehow, both at once (Malekith).

As always, it's the execution that matters.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 28th 2019 at 8:23:23 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#110522: Sep 28th 2019 at 8:17:15 PM

Remember also that most of the script kept getting rewritten so Jeff Bridges had to improvise most of Obadiah's dialogue. He described the experience like being on a "$200 million college film".

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#110523: Sep 28th 2019 at 8:20:16 PM

[up]The start of the most successful film franchise of all time...

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#110524: Sep 28th 2019 at 8:29:29 PM

What I'm taking from that is that Jeff Bridges is really good at improv.

I guess most of the Iron Man cast has to be, come to think of it. I already knew that detail about the script but I only ever thought of it in terms of RDJ's performance and not anyone else's.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#110525: Sep 28th 2019 at 8:39:28 PM

Honestly, they probably should have partially improvised more movies. The end result kinda makes you wonder if they stumbled onto a good idea.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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