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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#110451: Sep 27th 2019 at 6:56:46 PM

I'd like to see Ultimate Marvel done right, as in they're all dicks but not to the gross extent of the comics.

The legend has returned.
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#110452: Sep 27th 2019 at 6:57:30 PM

Why would you want them to be all dicks?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110453: Sep 27th 2019 at 6:58:17 PM

Why is everyone being a dick a necessity?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Akirakan Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#110455: Sep 27th 2019 at 7:01:19 PM

Why would we want to bring back that part?

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Cross (Don’t ask)
#110456: Sep 27th 2019 at 7:01:56 PM

Thought people weren't fans of Anya simply being another Spider?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#110457: Sep 27th 2019 at 7:07:01 PM

There are a lot of fans of Anya, but it's also because she's a different type of Spider-hero, going with the more mystical angle and isn't related to Peter Parker in any way.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110458: Sep 27th 2019 at 7:11:48 PM

The issue with Anya is that she started out a unique spider-hero only to steadily be generalized over the years.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#110459: Sep 27th 2019 at 7:13:48 PM

I had the idea that MCU Carol could end up with a similar surrogate parent relationship with Rogue - one of my ideas for a Captain Marvel sequel essentially has Carol liberate Rogue from an abusive parental situation with Mystique.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#110460: Sep 27th 2019 at 7:16:45 PM

I thought if they did the Carol as a mentor route, they'd do it with Kamala.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#110461: Sep 27th 2019 at 7:27:32 PM

Yeah, Kamala works better as a mentor/mentee relationship. Rogue...wouldn't work in that way. And there was never an indication that Mystique was a bad parent.

In fact, I would love it if we saw a nice normal home life with Rogue and her two parents, Mystique and Destiny. And then Rogue discovers that her parents do shady, black ops Brotherhood stuff when not at home.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#110462: Sep 27th 2019 at 7:30:33 PM

The part where she sent Rogue to kill people isn’t an indication of bad parenting?

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110464: Sep 27th 2019 at 7:51:39 PM

Reminds me of Wolverine being a big old fuddy duddy over X-23 being in X-Force of her own choice.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#110465: Sep 27th 2019 at 8:55:27 PM

And there was never an indication that Mystique was a bad parent.

There was never any indication that Iron Man was Peter Parker’s replacement father figure after Ben died either.

The MCU’s taken less extreme departures from typical character dynamics before.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#110466: Sep 27th 2019 at 9:17:08 PM

[up]There was a brief time in the comics when Tony started to take on a mentor role for Peter. That's where that whole "Iron Spider" costume came from. Then Civil War happened.

As for Mystique's parenting...well, her own character page's Abusive Parents entry sums it up:

She is also an abusive parent to her own children, Nightcrawler, Rogue, and Graydon Creed, considering she's either abandoned, manipulated, attacked, or killed all of them at some point with little to no remorse.

She's a terrible parent.

Edited by M84 on Sep 28th 2019 at 12:20:33 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#110467: Sep 27th 2019 at 9:19:37 PM

Apparently there were originally plans for Destiny and Mystique to be the biological parents of either Rogue or Nightcrawler, the latter being the father, using her powers to give herself the, ahem, necessary equipment.

Jim Shooter dropped the hammer on this as hard as he could. Some people still want it recanonized.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#110468: Sep 27th 2019 at 9:21:41 PM

Rogue's early years with Mystique were probably something akin to Mother Gothel's "raising" of Rapunzel.

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#110469: Sep 27th 2019 at 9:21:48 PM

It's 2019. I could see it happening.

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#110470: Sep 27th 2019 at 9:23:29 PM

All three of Mystique's children have suffered for having her as a mother. The one who got off lightest was Kurt. The one she abandoned and left for dead as an infant.

Disgusted, but not surprised
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#110471: Sep 27th 2019 at 9:23:50 PM

That is a filthy lie and you know it, Rob.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#110472: Sep 27th 2019 at 9:26:12 PM

There was a brief time in the comics when Tony started to take on a mentor role for Peter. That's where that whole "Iron Spider" costume came from. Then Civil War happened.

A mentor figure, yeah. A father figure, no. I've read the Iron Spider comics. They're nothing like Homecoming's depiction of Tony and Peter's relationship.

Which is kind of my point. The MCU takes liberties if it brings them the story they want to tell.

To keep this from derailing though, just to clarify my initial post was in reference to an earlier idea I posted here about how a Captain Marvel sequel could potentially incorporate Rogue and Mystique as villains (the short of it, emphasize Rogue - who would be The Dragon to Mystique - as a foil to Carol, going through similar situations with people who don't care about her marginalizing her self-esteem in order to control her power, resulting in a Heel–Face Turn and team up as Carol encourages her to break free).

I legit wasn't expecting it to explode into a "that can never happen!" discussion.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 27th 2019 at 9:30:54 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110473: Sep 27th 2019 at 9:27:08 PM

She also had a kid with both Prof. X & Wolverine.

Jeez she's had a lot of kids, she can give Mad Moxxi a run for her money.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 27th 2019 at 9:28:49 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#110474: Sep 27th 2019 at 9:29:59 PM

[up]And she's been a terrible mother to all of them. She's abandoned, manipulated, abused, and/or murdered (or tried to murder) them all.

Edited by M84 on Sep 28th 2019 at 12:32:05 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#110475: Sep 27th 2019 at 9:37:06 PM

I'm almost certain the MCU's going to make Mystique a more villainous character, if only to get away from Fox's portrayal in the later X-Men movies. Maybe she'll maintain some redeeming qualities, but I don't think she'll be a completely sympathetic character when she's reintroduced.

P.S.: My knowledge of the X-Men is limited, so I may be 100% wrong.


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