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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#110001: Sep 20th 2019 at 1:52:40 PM

Yeah, I frequented the spoiler thread and this is the first I’ve heard of it also.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#110002: Sep 20th 2019 at 2:20:54 PM

I also don’t recall it. Does anyone have a link to the discussion in question?

Oh God! Natural light!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#110003: Sep 20th 2019 at 5:35:32 PM

Agreed with the majority, this is the first time I've ever heard that specific complaint taken in that specific direction, and I don't like it.

Cortez from Parts Unknown (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#110004: Sep 20th 2019 at 9:06:18 PM

I also don’t want Ben getting with Sue like in the Ultimate Verse.

That was just weird AF.

No it wasn't, not when you remember what the Maker is like.

Plus it's an alternate universe.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#110005: Sep 20th 2019 at 9:07:51 PM

There’s always been a suggestion that Ben was also interested in Sue. But unlike Logan, Ben is far too classy for a love triangle

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#110006: Sep 20th 2019 at 9:11:09 PM

[up][up] So it’s an alternate universe, and?

It’s like if Norman Osborn was a kind person & a good father. Alternate universe or not, that’s a weird feeling.

Sue getting with Ben is a similar feeling. Especially since Ben has his own love interests.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 20th 2019 at 9:11:46 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#110007: Sep 20th 2019 at 9:59:07 PM

I think we can expect the MCU won't turn Reed into the Maker for their films. I really don't see audiences responding well to the idea.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#110008: Sep 20th 2019 at 10:53:16 PM

The ideal Fantastic 4 movie would be taking the slice-of-life elements from the 2005 film and the exploration plot that the 2015 film kind of hinted at before it went off the rails and flopped. You know, done well.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#110009: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:03:33 PM

It’s like if Norman Osborn was a kind person & a good father.

That's pretty much how he's been depicted in the Fox cartoon, the Raimi movie and even the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon (though this came later). In the former two, Norman's cruelty is solely the result of the Goblin formula corrupting him.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#110010: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:05:38 PM

[up] Osborn is definitely a shitty father in the Raimi movies. Hell, he ends up liking Peter better than his own son.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#110011: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:15:48 PM

He's an imperfect father not really a shitty one. It's obvious he loves Harry but he also has a lot of issues that are getting in the way (like losing his company and the Goblin possessing him). There is nothing to indicate he like Peter more than his own son. He respects Peter but that's it.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#110012: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:25:51 PM

Judging from the way that Harry acted around him, there is definitely an indication that Norman was a shitty father.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#110013: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:28:50 PM

Harry was a teenager. There was zero indication that Norman was an outright terrible father. At least, not before he was corrupted by the goblin formula.

Edited by windleopard on Sep 20th 2019 at 11:29:51 AM

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#110015: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:37:20 PM

Regardless, the point still stands, adaptations don't have to be 100% faithful.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#110016: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:37:22 PM

[up][up]Care to point out how?

[up]I have my issues with the movie, but Civil War is still better than the comic it was based on.

Admittedly not a high bar to pass, but still.

Edited by windleopard on Sep 20th 2019 at 11:38:40 AM

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#110017: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:38:38 PM

The Rami's Norman Osborn was cold-hearted at times and he was a bad father for Harry (particularly with his advice about women), but he never went to the depravity of his comic book counterpart. I think a lot of the sympathy towards Norman comes from the fact that the Green Goblin is clearly an entity of its own in Norman's head. Like, the Goblin has nothing in common with Norman other than giving what Norman secretly wants (albeit through violent means). He just does things For the Evulz. And this monstrous side is able to make the normally cold father that is Norman whimper like a child.

Edited by Shadao on Sep 20th 2019 at 11:39:53 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#110018: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:39:57 PM

Again, where is this cruelty towards Harry that Norman displays in the Raimi movies? The closest I saw to this was a scene in the limo of Norman chastising Harry for his bad grades.

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#110019: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:42:16 PM

[up] There was Norman's advice towards Harry about what he really thought about Mary Jane (whom Harry was dating at the time). He thinks that Mary Jane is a Gold Digger and just like Norman's wife, would only marry Harry for money. Of course, he was trying to find an excuse to get out of a Thanksgiving Dinner set by Aunt May because he just found out that Spider-Man was Peter Parker.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#110020: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:43:59 PM

Are we sure that was Norman and not the Goblin talking?

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#110021: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:47:05 PM

Are we sure that was Norman and not the Goblin talking?
Are you sure we watched the same movie? Norman isn't a good father in the film, even before he takes the Goblin formula. Hell, he isn't a good person. He negs his own son, disparages him and his girlfriend, and also takes a dangerous formula that he has no idea what will do to him because he's pissed.

tldr; he's a shitty dad.

Edited by alliterator on Sep 20th 2019 at 11:48:47 AM

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#110022: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:48:31 PM

[up][up] Who honestly knows? And it's quite frightening when you think about it because you'll never know if it's regular Norman you're talking to... or the Green Goblin pretending to be Norman. It does lead to that great scene at the climax where the unmasked Norman blames the Goblin for all the murders and insists that he would never harm Peter... while you see him secretly activate a button with his glider jet ready to ram into Spider-Man from behind.

Edited by Shadao on Sep 20th 2019 at 11:49:25 AM

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#110023: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:53:33 PM

Are you sure we watched the same movie? Norman isn't a good father in the film, even before he takes the Goblin formula. Hell, he isn't a good person. He negs his own son,

Criticizing your kid for bad grades is being a bad father now?

disparages him and his girlfriend,

See my above post.

and also takes a dangerous formula that he has no idea what will do to him because he's pissed.

This has nothing to do with whether or not he is a good father and was him being desperate to save his company.

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#110024: Sep 20th 2019 at 11:56:03 PM

Criticizing your kid for bad grades is being a bad father now?
He doesn't criticize his son; he insults him. He is totally a shitty father.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#110025: Sep 21st 2019 at 12:20:17 AM

What insults? Where does he insult him?

     Harry Norman Dialogue 

Norman: Where were you?

Harry: Checking out the library.

Norman: Looking at the books.

Harry: Yeah, right.

As they're pulling into the museum.

Harry: Dad would you ask Hoskins to drive around the corner please.

Norman: Why?

Harry: The entrance is right there. Dad these are public school kids, I'm not showing up for the field trip in a Rolls.

Norman: You want me to trade in my care for a Jetta just because you flunked out of every private school I ever sent you to?

Harry: It wasn't for me.

Norman: Of course it was. Don't ever be ashamed of who you are.

Harry: I'm not ashamed of who I am. It's just...

Norman: Just what, Harry?

Harry: Forget it.

Where is the insults and abuse in this?


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