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Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! This pinned post is here to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules still apply.

  • This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
  • While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
  • Spoilers for new releases should not be discussed without spoiler tagging for at least two weeks. Rather, each title should have a dedicated thread where that sort of conversation is held. We can mention new releases in a general sense, but please be courteous to people who don't want to be spoiled.

If you're posting tagged spoilers, make sure that the film or series is clearly identified outside the spoiler tagging. People need to know what will be spoiled before they choose to read the post.

    Original post 
Since Thor and now Captain America came out this year, I wanted to get what Tropers thought of the concept and execution of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general. Personally I love the idea and wonder why this idea hasn't been seriously tried before. It sorta seems to me like the DCAU in movie form (And well, ummm, with Marvel), and really 'gets' the comic book feel of a shared universe while not being completely alienating.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 29th 2024 at 3:09:00 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#109901: Sep 19th 2019 at 5:25:05 PM

Yeah. Yo Yo is one of the better speedsters because her limitations mean she can use her power to their utmost as opposed to having to be nerfed to be prevented from solving the plot in an instant.

One Strip! One Strip!
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#109902: Sep 19th 2019 at 5:30:08 PM

One thing I'm surprised hasn't come up regarding speedsters

Isn't there a risk they'll accelerate their own body's ageing because of how fast they're literally going?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#109903: Sep 19th 2019 at 5:34:20 PM

I assume they have Required Secondary Powers to prevent that.

In fact, Speedsters probably need a lot of Required Secondary Powers.

One Strip! One Strip!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#109904: Sep 19th 2019 at 5:35:36 PM

That'd only be a problem if their power is stopping time. If it's just going really fast that everything else is moving really slowly, then their cells shouldn't be aging any faster.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#109905: Sep 19th 2019 at 5:36:10 PM

A friend of mine had a character named "Expresso", whose speed-based superpowers depended on him consuming caffeine

I had a similar idea but called the character "Mach-iato".

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Sep 19th 2019 at 8:37:18 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#109906: Sep 19th 2019 at 5:44:35 PM

On a sidenote, I once was in a conversation with my brother, and I said Macchiato sounded a lot like a type of Italian Mafia-gang to me.

"I'm pretty sure the Macchiato are currently hunting John Wick down right now" was part of my exact words.

Leviticus 19:34
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#109907: Sep 19th 2019 at 5:48:30 PM

Well, prepare the Cappuccinos to take over.

Wake me up at your own risk.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#109908: Sep 19th 2019 at 5:49:13 PM

Yo-Yo is better off than other speedsters in terms of avoiding Story-Breaker Power but there are still some times where she could totally solve the plot but isn't supposed to and instead just stands there.

The snapback weakness acts as a limiter, but it doesn't really change the main problem with speedsters: that she could, if she wanted to, totally blink an entire room full of enemies to death any and every time the team is violently challenged.

Sure, you can shoot guns at her body and she can't move her body out of the way. But there's still nothing stopping her from grabbing all of the bullets out of midair and stuffing them 350 different people's throats before snapping back.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 19th 2019 at 6:50:06 AM

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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#109909: Sep 19th 2019 at 6:58:31 PM

This incidentally is one of the reasons it's hard to make a good Superman movie — he's got Super-Speed (though not nearly at the same level as The Flash) on top of his other powers.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#109910: Sep 19th 2019 at 7:45:02 PM

Imo Quicksilver's death in Ultron was a waste of potential. Like, his character had room to grow and could have gone in interesting directions if he had lived (like imagine him siding with Iron Man during Civil War and having to fight Wanda at the airport). This video does a pretty good job explaining it:

Skip to the 13:58 mark

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#109911: Sep 19th 2019 at 7:55:43 PM

....

This isn't gonna turn into a Hawkeye should have died because he's boring thing is it?

Cause I just wanna kibosh that right now. I do agree that it sucks that Quicksilver died. He was a wrecking machine during the Battle of Sokovia, and I'd have loved to see how he bounced off the other Avengers.

Him siding with Tony would have been interesting too, since it would mean being ok with locking Wanda up in the mansion. Although considering he's classically known for being overprotective of her, I could see it happening.

One Strip! One Strip!
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#109912: Sep 19th 2019 at 7:58:36 PM

[up]Hawkeye should have died because he was so boring. Him and his little kids, too.

I have no regrets for[down]

Edited by fredhot16 on Sep 19th 2019 at 8:06:55 AM

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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#109913: Sep 19th 2019 at 7:59:02 PM

I mean did Ultron really need someone to die?

[up] Holy shit that's cold homes. [lol]

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 19th 2019 at 7:59:23 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#109914: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:00:26 PM

Interesting things could have been done with Quicksilver if he lived.

But, like, ANY decision ever made is a waste of potential. Because you're deciding to do one thing instead of another thing.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#109915: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:00:31 PM

I'm wondering if Pietro's death was part of the deal with Fox or something. Like, part of the deal was that Marvel had to kill Quicksilver off, and in exchange the X-Men films wouldn't have the Scarlet Witch.

At the very least, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an intentional bid to avoid audience confusion. Had he survived, there would've been two superhero film franchises with speedster superheroes called Quicksilver with their real name being P. Maximoff. Marvel probably thought it was best to kill him off and avoid diluting the brand recognition.

I think the real reason Quicksilver was killed was because Whedon wanted to pull a Bait-and-Switch where he hinted that Hawkeye was going to die at some point during the film, only to surprise the viewer by killing off one of the new heroes instead. Hence the "You didn't see that coming" line.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Sep 19th 2019 at 11:02:42 AM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#109916: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:00:40 PM

Hawkeye was one of the best parts about Endgame, so I do not like the 'Hawkeye should die because he's boring' conceit.

The legend has returned.
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#109917: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:01:42 PM

Maybe Pietro'll actually get a mention in Wanda Vision.

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#109918: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:01:55 PM

[up]x5 Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Whedon REALLY wanted a death for some reason and so decided to try to fake us out by making Hawkeye a family man. Like, pending the Disney+ show, no movie has been terribly interested in the character aside from Endgame, and only then was to show (very problematically, as has been noted) how badly the Snap effected everyone.

Tl;dr I would have rather NEITHER Hawkeye nor Quicksilver die because the idea of a death in Ultron's climax doesn't really mean anything aside from "pulling a fast one" on the audience

[down]x2 [awesome]

Edited by Aleistar on Sep 19th 2019 at 11:08:54 AM

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#109919: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:02:56 PM

Whedon just really likes pulling surprise deaths. It worked with Coulson, it got people very upset with Wash, but with Quicksilver it didn't work at all.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#109920: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:06:47 PM

"Ooooh, Death Flags! Maybe the guy we keep pushing is 'useless' and has a family and may or may be the heart is going to die! Nope, it's the guy with no personality instead! Aren't you shocked?"

I'm more annoyed they didn't give us a reason to care about losing Quicksilver as a character, and then expected us to feel emotion when he dies in a very telegraphed and throwaway fashion, than I am about losing Quicksilver himself.

Ultron was a very good example of a movie where the "someone needs to die" mentality wasn't really a great idea.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 19th 2019 at 8:07:48 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#109921: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:15:03 PM

Lets be real here, the biggest reason why Quicksilver died is cause Marvel didn't want to use him alongside Fox's version.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#109922: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:26:19 PM

Whedon's works always include one or more of the following: "shocking" deaths, Waif-Fu, and bare feet.

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#109923: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:52:30 PM

I think most of the guesses here (Whedon wanting a shock death; not wanting to share Pietro with Fox, and possibly a trade off for being able to use Wanda, etc).

it got people very upset with Wash

I barely watched Firefly and that death got me upset. You don't do that after a character's Moment of Awesome! You fucking don't!

Edited by HandsomeRob on Sep 19th 2019 at 9:52:46 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#109924: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:56:04 PM

Eh, they did it in Starship Troopers.

Edited by M84 on Sep 19th 2019 at 11:57:27 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#109925: Sep 19th 2019 at 8:56:44 PM

Its a monkey's paw bargain that led to Wanda being on the short list of most powerful people on Earth

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

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